Canadian Armoured Corps

[fearnaught]

Hi, The printed CAC have both black and tan backings, is there any significance? The more maroon CAC has a black open weave backing, the other two have the close weave white linen backing, are there any other types of the CAC? I would also like to know about the various styles of titles, especially the post-war manufactures as there seems to be a lack of information on this period.

[Bill A]

Good to see posts about more common items.
The Canadian Armoured Corps titles are perhaps one of the easiest to find WW2 issue titles, but not much research has been done on them. The CAC titles are easily found, in part because of the system of patching adopted by the Canadian army. The Canadian units in Italy used a system of patching that saw the Canadian Armoured Corps title sewn on at the top of the arm, and then the formation patch with the regiments abbreviated name below. So, for the BCD's, one would have a CAC shoulder title over the maroon 5th CAD patch that had BCD embroidered or printed on it. There was need for thousands of the CAC titles, as every armoured regiment in the 5th CAD and 1 CTB / 1 CAB was patched in this manner for several months, circa 1943-1944.
The backing on the canvas titles has been attributed to different manufacturing runs. The tan backing / heavier material is suggested to be from earlier runs, perhaps the intitial issue in 1943. The thinner black cotton backing pattern is suggested to be later. These are opinions that circulate in the collecting community, but there is not a lot of documented evidence to conclusively support these observations.
Any chance of an image of the reverse of the embroidered patterns?
Post war is another kettle of fish all together. Authorizations and documentation are not easy to find. There are a couple of references, like ordnance catalogues, but these are not detialed in what you will find for patterns or types. The starting observation for post war, is that the red on yellow titles appeared after the summer of 1945, when the "ROYAL" prefix was authorized. They became obsolete when the RCAC became the Armoured Branch of the Canadian Forces circa 1968.

[Dwayne H]

Prior to the adoption of the familar shape of the CAC title, there were discussions about the shape and colour that should be used. Below is a prototype title ...the colours are a bit different from the shades that were finally agreed upon.

I also attached a photo of both the cloth and canvas versions and the way they were worn by the 12CTR.

Dwayne

[fearnaught]

Hi, here are images.

[fearnaught]

Hi, I've got a printed Canadian Grenadier Guards on a maroon backing. Are there any other colour backings for printed titles?

[Bill A]

All of your CAC titles look good.
Again, can you post an image of the Canadian Grenadier Guards title?
If I understand, you are talking about the reverse side of the title?

[fearnaught]

Hi, here are images, yes it was the reverse I was talking about. Also, oddly, I have a printed Coldstream Guards, white on red, which has the same dark red back.

[Bill A]

Hey fearnaught, That is a new backing to me. Anyone else ever seen the maroon backing?
May not be that odd, because Canadian and British printed titles and patches were made in the UK (with a couple of exceptions). So, it is quite likely that if you had a backing, it could be used on many different titles.
Does anyone else have printed titles/patches with maroon backing?

[Dwayne H]

I have a few titles with reddish and maroon backings.....all of the examples are from units that have red titles. Perhaps it had something to do with the printing process?

Dwayne

[Bill A]

Dwayne, Is that backing heavier than the black cotton ones?

[Dwayne H]

Hi Bill ,
I would equate it to the thickness of the earlier issue of canvas titles. The first issue "coarse weave" canvas titles tend to be heavier than the later 1945 issues. I would say it is about the same with the exception of the Canadian Scottish title which is the same as the 1945 issue titles.

Dwayne

[Dwayne H]

Hi Bill ,
I would equate it to the thickness of the earlier issue of canvas titles. The first issue "coarse weave" canvas titles tend to be heavier than the later 1945 issues. I would say it is about the same with the exception of the Canadian Scottish title which is the same as the 1945 issue titles.

Dwayne

[Bill A]

Thanks Dwayne. Now something else to research. It makes sense that the red backing is on titles that are red obverse, but it would be interesting to find the makers information on the reason for the use of that backing.

[Seathanaich]

Originally Posted by Dwayne H

Prior to the adoption of the familar shape of the CAC title, there were discussions about the shape and colour that should be used. Below is a prototype title ...the colours are a bit different from the shades that were finally agreed upon.

I also attached a photo of both the cloth and canvas versions and the way they were worn by the 12CTR.

Dwayne

Those photos look like red, green, and brown: "through blood and mud to the green fields beyond", as per Britains Royal Tank Corps (later Regiment).

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dwayne H

Prior to the adoption of the familar shape of the CAC title, there were discussions about the shape and colour that should be used. Below is a prototype title ...the colours are a bit different from the shades that were finally agreed upon.

I also attached a photo of both the cloth and canvas versions and the way they were worn by the 12CTR.

Dwayne

These are outstanding images. The prototype title is superb. Thank you very much for posting them. Mike