Verdigris to clean or not

[MH331]

I recently bought this AMB cap badge. It has a heavy layer of verdigris to the front.

1. Should I clean it?

if so

2. What is best without damaging the badge?

thanks

Mark

[Paul Spellman]

Mark,
I would say clean it as the verdigris is basically eating the badge.
I would soak in white vinegar for 20 mins then give a clean with soft brush and mild detergent (fairy)
Paul
Oh Tigerlilly cleaned a Kings Own badge suffering a similar fate which came up quite well so maybe asking what she used may help

[Charliedog012012]

I try using a gentle brush with soapy solution first of all. If nothing else, it will soften up the verdigris which is essentially Copper Carbonate which is the result of corrosion to the surface. Sometimes it lifts off but i normally use a small brush to touch onto small amounts of verdigris or as Paul as noted for large areas of verdigris it is ok to soak in the White vinegar. I tend to leave for only about 5 minutes in order to change the patina as little as possible. It is worth trying different times of soaking ( I tried it on old fakes! So as not to ruin a good badge) or even diluting the vinegar if I think it is overcleaning the badge. This method works well on GM as well as white metal badges. I cleaned up a Black Watch Badge very nicely this way. In most cases, white metal badges age gracefully and need nothing more than a quick gentle clean with soapy water. I use washing up liquid in a small amount of water and a child's toothbrush.
I like to see a nice patina on a badge ...it is part of its history and story.

[49lassiepen]

Patina also could be thought as neglect and dirt -when have you seen an old soldier on parade etc with insignia or medals showing patina I agree very good idea to remove any verdigris

[Hoot]

Mark, I would remove the split-pin and practice on that first as you are dealing with a very rare and very desirable badge.

[Charliedog012012]

Originally Posted by Hoot

Mark, I would remove the split-pin and practice on that first as you are dealing with a very rare and very desirable badge.

Absolutely. I will second that. I certainly would make sure I had tried a cleaning technique before trying out on a valuable badge. Luckily (unluckily??) I had fakes or broken beyond repair badges to try the cleaning technique and it builds ones confidence. I would not clean the valuable badge until I was fully happy about being confident to do it. What is for sure that the verdigris has to go because it will only get worse. How clean you want the badge to be is up to yourself. I even have a jeweller cleaned badge.....I can't wait for it to tarnish down a bit because it looks too new!

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

Mark,
I would say clean it as the verdigris is basically eating the badge.
I would soak in white vinegar for 20 mins then give a clean with soft brush and mild detergent (fairy)
Paul
Oh Tigerlilly cleaned a Kings Own badge suffering a similar fate which came up quite well so maybe asking what she used may help

Long soak in a lemon juice and water bath, then got rid of slightly more stubborn bits with Autosol. Looks great. Took a lot less effort then my Soldier, Soldier badge which was filthy. I never want to clean another flame as long as I live. Oh and as Hoot suggests I'd do the pin first just to make sure it will come up ok. Look forward to seeing the result, how ever you decide to clean it.

Alli

[MH331]

Thanks that's a top tip!

Originally Posted by Hoot

Mark, I would remove the split-pin and practice on that first as you are dealing with a very rare and very desirable badge.

[altcar73]

Mmm. I'm not quite sure that's a good idea. If you are going to do that, make sure that the split pin is made of the same metal as the badge. Which, in my experience is unlikely.

Dave.

[ubervamp]

Mark

I've had luck with diluted lemonjuice. Where possible I try to target the area as precisely as possible to avoid removing too much patina from rest of badge (which I like). I leave it on for 5-10 minutes and rinse thoroughly. For more stubborn parts you could let it soak and use a toothbrush or a toothpick.
The verdigris is indeed corrosion (as is patina, though to a much less degree) so you might find that where the verdigris is removed, it will have eaten into the metal and leave dark stains which cant be removed.

Colin

[Charliedog012012]

Originally Posted by Tigerlily

Long soak in a lemon juice and water bath, then got rid of slightly more stubborn bits with Autosol. Looks great. Took a lot less effort then my Soldier, Soldier badge which was filthy. I never want to clean another flame as long as I live. Oh and as Hoot suggests I'd do the pin first just to make sure it will come up ok. Look forward to seeing the result, how ever you decide to clean it.

Alli

Colin makes a good point about the dark stain that is impossible to move. Alli has suggested using Autosol..I wonder if that would remove the dark stains that Colin mentions?... I would think you have to use it carefully. I wonder how Alli has used it specifically.
It is also a very good point that the pin might be a different metal to the badge

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by altcar73

Mmm. I'm not quite sure that's a good idea. If you are going to do that, make sure that the split pin is made of the same metal as the badge. Which, in my experience is unlikely.

Dave.

Dave, I understand what you mean, the badge being gilding metal and the split-pin probably being brass, but they are both copper alloys. Gilding metal being 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc, brass being about two thirds copper and one third zinc normally. I'm certainly no metals expert but I can't imagine the cleaning process of either would be any different. I'll get my bullet-proof vest on just in case the shooting starts!!.

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by Charliedog012012

Colin makes a good point about the dark stain that is impossible to move. Alli has suggested using Autosol..I wonder if that would remove the dark stains that Colin mentions?... I would think you have to use it carefully. I wonder how Alli has used it specifically.
It is also a very good point that the pin might be a different metal to the badge

James I couldn't comment for dark stains, what I have done the last few times I have had to clean a badge is soak in water and lemon juice get as much of the muck off with just that and a toothbrush, then gone over with Autosol to bring it up further. Results have been good. Even if ahem a couple of the badges weren't

[Charliedog012012]

You have done a good job on 'The Kings Own' and the Devonshires. I do not suppose that lemon juice solution will be much different to white vinegar solution since they have similar pH but the Autosol has done a good job. I seem to recall someone suggesting ammonia solution but I have real doubts about that and dangerous stuff in the wrong hands.

I have an old and probably fake badge lying around in a drawer somewhere and I might investigate what effect Coca Cola has on it......it cleans old pennies wonderfully!

[Tigerlily]

Originally Posted by Charliedog012012

You have done a good job on 'The Kings Own' and the Devonshires. I do not suppose that lemon juice solution will be much different to white vinegar solution since they have similar pH but the Autosol has done a good job. I seem to recall someone suggesting ammonia solution but I have real doubts about that and dangerous stuff in the wrong hands.

I have an old and probably fake badge lying around in a drawer somewhere and I might investigate what effect Coca Cola has on it......it cleans old pennies wonderfully!

I know loads of people use ammonia solution and its recommended in K & K but I'm too chicken to try it. Had good results with my other Kings Own as well