County of London Yeomanry - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Keith Blakeman · #1 15-10-07, 08:38 PM

I was pleased to get hold of this badge today after a long period of waiting for a good one. This is the pattern worn for a single year (1938-39) yet appears more frequently than it's predecessor (worn 1920-38). These are usually copies and good ones at that, strong with lugs but slightly smaller in height and the CLY attached with solder not braze. The earlier badge which I don't have has the roman numerals XXIII in the centre rather than CLY and a word of warning about copies of this one is that the wording around the circle should have no mention of 23rd, this is unique to the badge posted here. The fakers have used the same basic badge with different w/m centres.

Alan O · #2 11-07-09, 03:17 PM

This is my new aquisition. From what I understand it was worn on a black RTR beret.

I am looking into the 1938-9 date to confirm that this was right. K&K contradicts itself by saying that the first badge was in use from 1924-38 but then give a sealed date of 1929 for the next one. I suspect a typo and that the very rare XXIII one went out of use in 1928 and not 1938.

I have seen a Coy photo from the early 1930s but the detail is not their to confirm what badge they are wearing.

If anyone has any pictures of the XXIII predecessor then I would be keen to see them.

Alan

Voltigeur · #3 11-07-09, 03:27 PM

Nice catch Keith & Alan, superb badge.
Jo

Viletone · #4 11-07-09, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

This is my new aquisition. From what I understand it was worn on a black RTR beret.

I am looking into the 1938-9 date to confirm that this was right. K&K contradicts itself by saying that the first badge was in use from 1924-38 but then give a sealed date of 1929 for the next one. I suspect a typo and that the very rare XXIII one went out of use in 1928 and not 1938.

I have seen a Coy photo from the early 1930s but the detail is not their to confirm what badge they are wearing.

If anyone has any pictures of the XXIII predecessor then I would be keen to see them.

Alan

There are certainly more of this pattern around than the XXIII version.

PeterA · #5 31-07-09, 10:50 PM

23rd London Armoured Car Company. Both XXIII & CLY with and without '23rd'.

Fakes? Quite possibly..but interesting.

I have about 30 variations on the 3CLY badge. Some are clearly low grade fakes but can there really be 20 odd fakers variations/tooling out there?

PeterA (ex Sharpshooter)

2747andy · #6 01-08-09, 01:53 AM

Peter,
any chance of a picture of the backs and without a flash? There is something about the crowns of the top three that does not look right and also bottom left!!

Just sort high and low for my XXIII, badge but it seems to have either gone absent or broken the curfew! I'll have another rumage in the morning!!

Andy

??

PeterA · #7 01-08-09, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Peter,
any chance of a picture of the backs and without a flash? There is something about the crowns of the top three that does not look right and also bottom left!!

Just sort high and low for my XXIII, badge but it seems to have either gone absent or broken the curfew! I'll have another rumage in the morning!!

Andy

Andy,

Here are the requested images.

I am sure some, if not all, will be non original issue; re-strikes from original tooling or pure fakes.

I am under no illusions that you cannot pick up badges like this, at modest to me prices, and see similar badges auctioned at Bosely's go for x5 the amount.

For me, with interest in just the one regiment, they are representative and fill a hole in my collection until something superior might turn up in the future.

Peter

2747andy · #8 01-08-09, 09:44 AM

Peter,
many thanks for your trouble in taking time to photograph your badges (Great photos, how do you get them so large in a post?)! My XXIII is still AWOL, however it is IMO a Genuine example (I think I may have posted it on the Forum in the past). Just an observation on you badges listed 1 to 6 starting top left as viewed, IMO the detail to the crowns on 1-4 all appear very flat when compared to 5&6 which have more relief/Depth/Detail and I believe 5&6 are both correct. Going back to 1-4 the lugs are defintely "Suspect" IMO and the "XXIII" on both examples the Numerals look very thin.

Thanks again, I'll post some of my badges, when I can detain the absent "XXIII"!

Best regards - Andy

Viletone · #9 01-08-09, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Peter,
many thanks for your trouble in taking time to photograph your badges (Great photos, how do you get them so large in a post?)! My XXIII is still AWOL, however it is IMO a Genuine example (I think I may have posted it on the Forum in the past). Just an observation on you badges listed 1 to 6 starting top left as viewed, IMO the detail to the crowns on 1-4 all appear very flat when compared to 5&6 which have more relief/Depth/Detail and I believe 5&6 are both correct. Going back to 1-4 the lugs are defintely "Suspect" IMO and the "XXIII" on both examples the Numerals look very thin.

Thanks again, I'll post some of my badges, when I can detain the absent "XXIII"!

Best regards - Andy

Isn't the top centre badge incorrect in having the 23rd LAC on the circlet and then the XXIII overlay?

orasot · #10 01-08-09, 11:52 AM

Here's a pic from Bovington Tank Museum, Wilf.

Alan O · #11 01-08-09, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viletone

Isn't the top centre badge incorrect in having the 23rd LAC on the circlet and then the XXIII overlay?

As Keith says in the first post this irregularity may well be the result of some die re-use by fakers.

Alan

PeterA · #12 01-08-09, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Peter,
many thanks for your trouble in taking time to photograph your badges (Great photos, how do you get them so large in a post?)! My XXIII is still AWOL, however it is IMO a Genuine example (I think I may have posted it on the Forum in the past). Just an observation on you badges listed 1 to 6 starting top left as viewed, IMO the detail to the crowns on 1-4 all appear very flat when compared to 5&6 which have more relief/Depth/Detail and I believe 5&6 are both correct. Going back to 1-4 the lugs are defintely "Suspect" IMO and the "XXIII" on both examples the Numerals look very thin.

Thanks again, I'll post some of my badges, when I can detain the absent "XXIII"!

Best regards - Andy

Andy,

My images are hosted by 'Photobucket'. It is or was a free service for modest use but I pay a yearly fee and have several thousand images accessible there, posted on aviation websites over several years. Good service.

Taking up your points on the badges I attach a scan from 'The Sharpshooters' by Boris Mollo and published in 1970. Boris was a serving officer in my times there and still is a leading light at the regimental museum. These drawings are full size and I note that the crown on the XXIII badge is slightly flattened and also that the XXIII is not as bold as the CLY...so pretty much as the badges in my collection.

Interesting, I have not only XXIII badges with 23rd on them but also CLY without 23rd.

Crowns are funny things. The KCLY formed by merger in 1961 issued some Kings Crown insignia.

Peter

PeterA · #13 08-08-09, 07:28 PM

Here is one from eBay that was new to me...and but for a failing internet wireless link in a camper van in NZ at 02.00..it might have been mine. It went for a three figure sum.

I suspect it is a collar.

Anybody ever see one before?

PeterA

fearnaught · #14 09-08-09, 02:56 PM

Hi, these are my collars as per Mollo's book but he does miss some badges as with the 4th other ranks collars. I would like to know if the enamelled badge is a sweethearts or an officer's side cap? Also all my British produced 4th CLY were made by Walker & Hall of Sheffield, including the enamelled badge hallmarked 1940 and the S/Titles, but recently I've seen 2 or 3 J R Gaunt marked Officers badges. The only full size 4th that I've heard of were the bullion badge and the crude middle east made badge, one of which I've included. Does anyone know of the provenance of these Gaunt badges? The other small 4th is a sweetheart, all brass and pin backed. Mike

PeterA · #15 10-08-09, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, these are my collars as per Mollo's book but he does miss some badges as with the 4th other ranks collars. I would like to know if the enamelled badge is a sweethearts or an officer's side cap? Also all my British produced 4th CLY were made by Walker & Hall of Sheffield, including the enamelled badge hallmarked 1940 and the S/Titles, but recently I've seen 2 or 3 J R Gaunt marked Officers badges. The only full size 4th that I've heard of were the bullion badge and the crude middle east made badge, one of which I've included. Does anyone know of the provenance of these Gaunt badges? The other small 4th is a sweetheart, all brass and pin backed. Mike

Fearnaught

I have two of these full size Gaunt marked badges with the small '4' and I have always assumed they were fake...but still interesting to me. They were a modest price.

I base this judgement of authenticity on a badge that sold on ebay for over£200. It was offered to me privately prior to this. The images attached show a very crisp detail of the Gaunt mark casting compared to the two I have.

I have never seen a full size cap badge with the large 'Styled 4' as on the collars. Boris Mollo has it in his book but I cannot locate one in the Sharpshooters museum website. I believe that the 'Styled 4' collar was used by some in a service hat and this has caused confusion.

Can anybody with more knowledge enlighten us?

PeterA