Regular Infantry First World War Economy Issue Badges

[Diehard]

Hi All,

I've recently been in contact with a BW collector who believes that some g/m badges were worn during WW1. As the badge found at Arras, in the BW museum proves. I'm informed that this example shows no sign of plating.

It is now thought g/m badges were originally intended to be silver plated and worn by Sgts. Some must have been issued unplated (for reasons I can only speculate).

He has an example of a plated badge which came with a Sgts uniform. He also knows of another unplated badge that belonged to a Sgt McQueen, but it is unknown whether this was ever worn.

So its probable some g/m badges were issued unplated, during WW1 - IMO.

Regards

Will

[KLR]

I'm not sure that a badge purportedly dug up in 1940 proves that it was worn in the 1st World War.
I can guarantee that "all brass / GM" BW badges were not official issue at any point during the 1st World War. If there is documentary evidence that they were unofficially produced - to be plated or whatever - so be it.

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by KLR

I'm not sure that a badge purportedly dug up in 1940 proves that it was worn in the 1st World War.
I can guarantee that "all brass / GM" BW badges were not official issue at any point during the 1st World War. If there is documentary evidence that they were unofficially produced - to be plated or whatever - so be it.

Julian,

Fair point, I can't say I have definite proof. I know as yet, no cast iron official record has come to light, but having spoken to a specialist BW collector there is some evidence to suggest they were worn. Or at the least they were made in g/m by an official source to be plated but were not for some reason and hence were not an "issued" item.

As the Sgts badge is a BIM badge, that would that fit in with your findings - that BIM badges were to be issued in all g/m. Possibly???

Regards

Will

[rmarsden]

Here is a pipers buckle with badge attached,
This buckle belonged to Sgt Major T Millar 8th & 9th RH.
In WW2 he served with the 30th BW infantry training Battalion.
Wether the badge is from WW1 OR WW2 I cannot say.
Ron.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by rmarsden

Here is a pipers buckle with badge attached,
This buckle belonged to Sgt Major T Millar 8th & 9th RH.
In WW2 he served with the 30th BW infantry training Battalion.
Wether the badge is from WW1 OR WW2 I cannot say.
Ron.

That is the flawed die badge!!!!!! It has the distinctive blob under the sphinx and is the pre WW2 design. The bns badge had the scrolls removed by WW2 (although the TF may had old stock). I cannot make it out but is is a LACESSET spelling?

Alan

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

That is the flawed die badge!!!!!! It has the distinctive blob under the sphinx and is the pre WW2 design. The bns badge had the scrolls removed by WW2 (although the TF may had old stock). I cannot make it out but is is a LACESSET spelling?

Alan

It's 'ET' Alan

[KLR]

mtrpltpara
"An economy version of the Border badge was produced in 1916,"

NO !, there was NO "brass economy" version of the Black Watch or even the Border Regt produced under the auspices of the War Office in 1916 - or any other time during the 1st World War.

There may have been UNOFFICIAL ones made after the war .

[Alan O]

3 points. If the badge is Lacesset then it is the 1908 design before the spelling was standardised in the 1920s to Lacessit. The scrolls were changed later in the 1930s.

The idea of an all brass NCOs badge, to replace the bi-metal one, does not hold water in my view as a w/m one was in existance and would do the job just as well. It remains a possibility though.


Most significantly if the badge is a belt buckle than perhaps the answer is that the brass badges are not a hat badges at all!

Alan

[Saddle tree maker]

Interesting . . .
Would the buckle be privately made or issued ?
It looks to me like a made up item, quite possibly made between the wars.
Is it unique, or did other Sgt's wear them ?
Can it be seperated, or is it braised on to the main piece ?
STM.

[rmarsden]

The buckle is made up from a civilian pipers item and a cap badge fitted with a slider.The badge has been soldered on to the buckle.
I suspect he fixed it on himself in WW2 when he was an instructor in the training
battalion. The question is was he issued with this badge in WW1, or some kind of economy item in WW2. Or did he buy it privatly?
Whatever the truth of the matter is it proves that this pattern of badge was around in the 1940s.
Ron.

[KLR]

Well, that's the point. It's NOT a (a copy of a) 'cap' badge and it certainly wouldn't have had a slider.

[Alan O]

While it raises some challenging questions at least this badge proves that the flawed die badge is not a modern copy as has been suggested.

The slider is definately not a WD ordered badge mind you.

Alan

[Alan O]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...5991#post25991

Chaps,

Could you add your Canadian expertise to this thread about 1916 economy badges. Is it correct that a Canadian Unit wore the standard British Black Watch badge in brass?

Alan

[Voltigeur]

Hi Alan, the 42nd Bm.CEF wore the brass British badge.
Jo
From the great website.
http://kaisersbunker.com/cef/headgear/cefch08.htm

[Sonofacqms]

I bought an "all Brass" Black watch some years ago and was told by Hugh King it was Canadian, apparently he was correct.