Royal Rifles and Winnipeg Grenadiers - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Bill A · #1 25-01-12, 11:43 PM

A question about the designation of the 1st Bn Royal Rifles and 1st Bn Winnipeg Grenadiers. Both units were mauled at Hong Kong, and surrendered to the Japanese, the surviving men of the battalions becoming PoW's. Both battalions were later re-constituted in the Active Service force in Canada. But, both battalions were identified as the 1st Bn of the respective regiments. How can this be? The 1st Bn surrendered at Hong Kong. Should not the re-constituted battalions in Canada be a subsequent number?

Phillip Herring · #2 26-01-12, 12:27 AM

Consider that with many (most?) active battalions, the battalion would mobilize, and the reserve battalion that paraded as a militia unit became the 2nd Battalion.
In the case of the Hong Kong battalions, they no longer existed.

Phil

Bill A · #3 26-01-12, 01:18 AM

I guess that is the crux of my question Phil. If they no longer "existed", they would have to have been declared as such? I can't find any documentation about either declaring the battalions as non-effective, or disbanded.
A corollary question may be what is the legal status of a "battalion" that has surrendered? Or is it only the soldiers that surrender and the battalion continues to exist on paper?

BWEF · #4 26-01-12, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill A

I guess that is the crux of my question Phil. If they no longer "existed", they would have to have been declared as such? I can't find any documentation about either declaring the battalions as non-effective, or disbanded.
A corollary question may be what is the legal status of a "battalion" that has surrendered? Or is it only the soldiers that surrender and the battalion continues to exist on paper?

I don't know if this helps, being the British army.

The 1st battalion of the Middlesex regiment was the machine gun battalion of the 15th Scottish division, and landed in Normandy.

The 1st battalion of the Middlesex regiment was also captured at Hong Kong in December 1941.

One of the Middlesex's TA battalions had been re-numbered in order to preserve continuity, which is how a battlion captured at Hong Kong fought in NW Europe 1944-45. Sort of.