SAS Artist Insignia

[Tonomachi]

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I could use some help again with the authenticity of these SAS Artists insignia. I believe most of it is fake. Thanks in advance for your help.

[johanwiegman]

hi Tonomachi,

The good news is the shoulder title Special Air Service (Artists) is original.
That title is very rare as most were cut down to form Special Air Service titles. You can tell the fakes as the '(Artists)' bit is always too small. On the real ones, you can cut off the '(Artists)' and still have a more or less normal title left, which is what happened) in the late fifties.

On the 21 battledress picture attached you can still see the last remaining dots of the brackets around (Artists). On the other pictures you can see two original titles and one that was cut down to Special Air Service. The 2nd picture shows the reverse of the titles.

The Mars & Minerva cloth patch is good also. It was worn on the arm until the late fifties and then dropped.

21 SAS was wearing the white metal Mars & Minerva 'Artists' badge on the maroon beret for a short while, never the 'Artists Rifles' beret badge (which is from WW1 or so).

During WW2 the Artists were an Officer Cadet Training Unit and after the war the SAS was resurrected as 21 Special Air Service (Artists Rifles).

I think most of the metal Artists items you display are pre-SAS. The white metal cross belt badge is a reproduction and was never worn.

The Special Air Service Malayan Scouts shoulder title is reproduction. You do realize that is not 21, but the early 22 SAS.

Overall, you have a nice collection of very good SAS items!

best regards,

Johan

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is an example of the Special Air Service (Artists) title for comparison

Tim

[johanwiegman]

hi Tim,

Also a fine example of an original title. Slightly different lettering. Very nice!

best regards,

Johan

[Tonomachi]

Thats everyone for your help as this is a great forum which I wish I would have known about many years ago!

[blackpowder44]

Here are my two versions. John.

[johanwiegman]

John,

I truly hate to say I have to express some doubts on the first title.

The 'Special Air Service (Artists)' title is just not the right pattern. This type of title, with the very shallow '(Artists)' bit is a typical reproduction pattern. You could never cut off the '(Artists)' part without totally destroying the title. I am not saying the original was designed to take off the lower part, but all the good ones I have seen are just like the other samples shown in this thread. I am not sure either the colours are correct (too white), the lettering is irregular and no 21 member would be allowed to sew this title on with white thread. They would always use maroon.

The second pattern '21st SAS (Artists)' is unlike any of the originals I have seen. The lettering is just too thin. However, there are always variations, so it may be good. It seems to have
been worn.

Please find attached a picture of one I know is good. This pattern was worn from when 21 was raised in 1947 until about 1954 when the "Special Air Service over Artists" title was introduced.

best regards,

Johan

[Mike Jackson]

All from the same man - joined 21 SAS on completion of National Service in the Rifle Brigade. His Artists badged BD blouse still has RB buttons.
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[johanwiegman]

hi Mike,

Very nice items! Interesting pair of wings, normally associated with Malaya, but quite possibly originating in early 21 SAS or even WW2.

On the 21 BD blouse it was quite common to have Rifle Brigade black buttons for all buttons non hidden when the blouse was closed: on the chest pockets, epaulettes and cuffs.
I have seen this on several officers BDs. Not sure if the black buttons were also worn by ORs.

See pictures.

best regards,

Johan

[johanwiegman]

Friends,

Please find attached some more pictures of cut-down Special Air Service (Artists) titles I have in my collection.

Compared to standard 'Special Air Service' titles, the shape is a bit irregular due to the cutting and the lower rim is a bit thinner and often a bit frayed.

Please note the black shadow lettering on the reverse. This is typical for Special Air Service (Artists) titles.

I may have a spare for any one interested in swapping.

best regards,

Johan

[kiwimedals]

Hi,

Joining the forum has given me a bit of a kick to get my insignia collection sorted out and in some sense of order so I can actually join in some of the discussions on here.

I was wondering if folk would mind casting an eye over this title. I got it as part of a large collection I purchased some years ago. Having never handled a confirmed good title in the flesh I've never been quite sure about this one....

Cheers,

[johanwiegman]

Hi,

A good reproduction, I am afraid. Please compare to the originals shown earlier in this thread and read how to distinguish the two. Do remember
the original titles are by now more than 55 years old, so your title looks very new indeed.

See pictures of another set of good titles on a 21 SAS Major's BD in the SAS Museum. Interesting wings also!

Best regards,

Johan

[kiwimedals]

Hi Johan,

Thanks for your quick reply. I was unsure about the title as I felt it might have been possible to cut the artists portion off and still have a title. I do take your points on regarding age however - the backing does feel nice and solid and is quite a dark maroon compared to the others shown here.

Cheers,

[johanwiegman]

hi mate,

I think collecting is all about having a really good look at original stuff in order to develop that sense of 'look and feel' of the real thing.

Your reproduction title is really well made, but if you look at the pictures of these titles being worn, you realize it does look very differently.

Pics of some more reproductions attached. The second took some clever cutting and some tea for the colour...

best regards,

Johan

[Harry Katyn]

Sorry I am a bit late getting to this thread. Here are some of my meagre offerings. There are a few I am dubious about and would appreciate any opinions from forum members. Hopefully I will be uploading some of my other SAS items to the relevant threads today.