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#31
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Toby,
I disagree again, genuine badges come from original dies, almost all reproductions come from fake dies! Andy Last edited by 2747andy; 02-02-13 at 11:59 AM. |
#32
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I have one very similar indeed, lugged for sleeve wear, it was in the Denis Edwards collection pre-1980, when I did a swap. I always took it for a badge of appointment, or just possibly a post 1907 "sergant of best shooting company" to be worn lower right sleeve.
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#33
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Hence my feeling that similar badges are fantasy! They continue to fool even today! Andy |
#34
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You surprise me with that statement. Surely it is well known that when manufacturers of insignia went under, or when badges changed and they wanted to sell off old dies, these were often bought up and then badges 'restruck' or 'reproduced' from them, even though they were obsolete as patterns of a badge, but of interest to 'collectors' of old badges. The most famous example I can think of are the "Fox Re-strikes" of pre-1881 Glengarry badges (from original dies) around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War. Perhaps you are referring to some form of badge collectors 'semantics' that I am genuinely unaware of though.
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#35
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yes, horrid!
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#36
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#37
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From the Martin Marsh Catalogue c1980 - 1995
390 = The School of Muskertry, Crossed Rifles Large Helmet size. Imperial Crown WM 1902 -1919 391 = The School of Muskertry, Crossed Rifles Large Helmet size. Imperial Crown B 1902 -1919 Tim Note spelling of Muskertry!
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"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest." Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 02-02-13 at 05:07 PM. Reason: add picture |
#38
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Toby, with the exception of the Fox PTG's, I refer to post 1900's cap badges, the term "Restrike from Original Dies" is term instigated and perpetuated by less than honest dealers and those who know very little about genuine badges, to add some form of credibility to a reproduction (fake or copy in layman's terms) badge! The only thing IMO post 1900's that comes anything close is the Gaunt B'ham badges (c.1970's) and on close inspection they almost all have slight differences to pre anodised Gaunt productions. Anodised badges began to replace "Metal" in the 1950's, most of the "Metal" dies would have been disposed of or recycled? If anyone honestly believes that 20 years or so later, Gaunt or any other manufacture for that matter, just blew off the cobwebs and started "Restriking" badges then they are seriously deluded and need to take a reality check! Post 1970's restrikes are NOT common and most are, if you want to be posh "Reproduction" if you want to be straight, Fakes and Copies! The crossed rifles and crown badge which started this thread is IMO a crock of pooh! A fake that has been around that long that even sensible collectors have started to pin hopes on it being possibly correct! I have been in the SASC museum many times, I have seen the B&W images and I have also handled too many of these "Knock Ups" to think anything other than "Fake" . Andy |
#39
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many thanks! I hope others can now start to smell the "Gold Blend" or begin to "Smell the Rats"?... Things started to happen in 1952, that had not happened for 51 years and that was the crown featured on many British and Commonwealth badges changed and also soon after so did the material they were made from and probably the machinery that was used was modernised (?), no manufacturer would hold onto dies with K.C. when the Military was drastically reduced post war and many new dies were struck which featured the Q.C. prior to the change to anodised. To compound that for the Infantry badges the Brigade system then came along and saw new badges being struck in anodised for almost all of the Regular Infantry! Why oh why would anyone with half a business brain hold onto the dies that bore the Imperial Crown? Andy |
#40
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As regards the original posters badge, I also do not disagree that it was not a good badge, I was merely remarking that not all large crown badges for the Sch of Muskry are fake, even though many are. The badges existed, were used under the circumstances I have explained and are not helmet, or cap badges as they are described in the Martin Marsh Catalogue, where they are clearly fake. The white metal variants alone scream that out loud. You made some very open shut statements that were not 100% true and I was/am not trying to score points, but wish only to state that there are, as so often is the case, some exceptions. One other thing that puzzles me is if you have seen the B&W photographs that I am referring to (and I don't doubt that you have) then how do you explain the large crowned metal badges worn on the arms of the instructors if such badges are all fakes? Last edited by Toby Purcell; 02-02-13 at 06:48 PM. |
#41
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I agree almost 100% - The badge with the ring like pearls to the arms of the crown is FAKE! Arm badges would of had a crown similar to the one I have shown with the standard pattern crossed rifles and the badges with tabs/blades to hold a felt backing are also a fakers knock up! If I do one thing to add to this hobby, it will be to totally rubbish the phrase "Restrike from an Original Die" WRT post 1890's cap badges! Andy |
#42
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#43
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I don't deny the felt backing, just the fact that the horrid badges with the tabs to hold the felt in place are fantasy items! Best regards Andy |
#44
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Morning Gents,
An example with a normal sized crown and definitely a one-piece badge. Regards, Garry |
#45
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Garry,
thanks for that! Phil, now can you see why you should take it back! All the best Andy |
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