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#61
27-02-16, 02:58 PM
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No problems with your button. I don't like the one on e-bay, I would say restrike. But I suppose it could be an example just pre 1968 if they were using the defective backmark? I wouldn't buy it anyway! Possibly the same die. David Last edited by davidwyke; 27-02-16 at 03:09 PM. 
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#62
27-02-16, 03:08 PM
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IMHO I would say from the same die. As this design had a very long run I cannot see any logical reason for a restrike, hence the ebay button should be OK notwithstanding a flawed (worn?) backmark die.
PS Have also seen good Gaunt London backmark on RM QC bz (Lovat Dress) large buttons GTB
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#63
27-02-16, 03:19 PM
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No doubt that your button is 100% of the period and original and I would much rather have yours than the one on ebay. However, the one on ebay does nicely illustrate the problem at hand! That pattern of button was, unless I am mistaken, being used up to 1968. So, IF brass buttons were still being issued and IF Gaunts were using a die with a flawed/worn out backmark at that time then it could be original. However, if someone can categorically state that only anodised buttons were being produced for the regiment from, say 1950, and that no officer privately purchased some buttons from Gaunts in the late 1960s then I would say "restrike" - but as GTB says "I cannot see any logical reason for a restrike"! I still think we are going to end up with a situation where there are some very obvious restrikes, some very obvious genuine issue and a (hopefully) few cases where nobody really knows and it is make your own mind up time! Roger Last edited by Cribyn; 27-02-16 at 03:49 PM.
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#64
27-02-16, 03:19 PM
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Hi Chaps
I've brought this discussion to the attention of a long standing and well respected button collector. Not a forum member and he doesn't want his name mentioned. Here are the criteria he uses regarding Gaunt restrikes - He does accept that SOME buttons with the flawed backmark are genuine, the majority produced around the same time he considers to be restrikes. Although he does say that some collectors regard all the flawed backmarks as suspect. Equally, some buttons with correct lettering are restrikes, it just depends which backmark die was used. The tinted back is definitely a bad sign and in his opinion is a very likely indication of a restrike. He also mentions that MANY BUT BY NO MEANS ALL of the restrikes have a slightly different rear profile - they tend to be slightly raised. Make of the above what you will! David PS..... slight amendment to the above - as regards the rear profile - what he actually says is the back is often slightly "domed". Better make sure I get it right! Last edited by davidwyke; 27-02-16 at 05:27 PM.
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#65
27-02-16, 03:55 PM
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Damn! That means I have to go back and check all those buttons I have already looked at, this time checking the rear profile!!!
Seriously though, I think David's last post has helped a lot. I guess we will never know for certain unless some documentation turns up but I think we have clarified quite a few things over the last few posts. I suspect we will all have the odd button or two that we are going to be a little uncertain about - I know I have! Roger
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#66
27-02-16, 04:02 PM
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We seem to be in a Catch-22 situation and the only way out is if by some miracle, authentic documentation from Gaunt's can be obtained giving incontrovertible proof re their restrike programme, with special emphasis on the 'tinted' backs and flawed lettering. Without this provenance, I'm afraid the saga will go on with the collector who comes up with the best possibility and the most convincing arguments, winning the contest. But if enough specialised collectors agree to agree, then at least something will have been achieved and a measure of normality brought to an otherwise unsolvable problem. A bonus is that the 'GAUNT LONDON' backmark has a specific time-frame and that fact has already put the Mark of Cain on some attractive pieces.
GTB
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#67
27-02-16, 04:12 PM
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Whilst we are here, the backmark on my "Skins" "J.R.GAUNT & SONS LONDON" button would I presume be the type used up until the "GAUNT LONDON" type came into use c1949, can anyone tell me when this was first used?
Rob
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#68
27-02-16, 04:15 PM
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Hi Chaps
Exciting news, the oracle has spoken again! Here are a couple more pearls of wisdom - The most suspect of all the defective Gaunt London marks are those with a broken "G" & "T" in "Gaunt". Something obvious but worth mentioning - the restrikes are always plated and usually, but not always, thinly plated. Something which Rob has highlighted by polishing the finish off his 27L button as shown earlier. David
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#69
27-02-16, 04:27 PM
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I think it was first used in the 1880's. Not sure how long it continued because it continued to be used alongside their other backmarks with "Ltd". It was certainly in use for many years though, possibly even post WW2? David
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#70
27-02-16, 05:11 PM
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GTB
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#71
27-02-16, 05:18 PM
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It also has the tinted back which is not good. (At least I think it does, I've looked at so many buttons during the course of this thread that I can't even remember!). David
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#72
27-02-16, 05:25 PM
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I also have a couple of other ranks KC GS Royal Arms buttons which just have "Gaunt London" as a back mark, but I suspect these are much earlier than 1949.
Rob
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#73
27-02-16, 05:30 PM
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Hello Rob
I would say that without doubt both your buttons are genuine issue. They could, of course, be much earlier than the 1949 date than has been suggested as the start of the use of 'Gaunt London' but personally I doubt it. I think both your buttons just go to prove the point that this backmark was being used from the late 1940s on. Roger
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#75
27-02-16, 05:43 PM
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Hi Rob
Certainly genuine and I have the same. The suspect marks have the name within a circlet rather than as on these buttons so it's possible that pattern was used earlier, WW2 maybe or they could be later as Roger suggests. They are very obviously brass O/R's and don't really fit the same category as the restrikes. I think these are more in line with the "Gaunt London" marks which had been used on some small size buttons over many years. David Last edited by davidwyke; 27-02-16 at 05:54 PM.
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