WRAF ASR RADIO / CUMINCATIONS

[ASR142]

Hi GUYS
Has any one got any pictures of any WRAF pesonal who is wearing the RAF ASR arm patch or patches ?
also information regarding how they wore the patche and any info regarding the wearing trade badges was it the same for the 2 services ( RAF AND WRAF ) ?
regarsd steve
I got this at the weekend from a good source its not been messed with only cleaned by myself with some sticky tape wrapped around my hands to clean the dust and moth from it its going to go in the freezer shortly .
I know they had wraf pesonnel in the RAF ASR service doing admin and some radio work + other tasks but I have never seen a tunic till this one the rules for the ASR badeg for the RAF was for the badge to be worn on the right side only I dont have any info on the WRAF personnel and how they wore their badges . The badge is the late war example .
heres the pics

[SAS1]

I don't like this myself Steve. Sorry I didn't get around to answering your PM, but I can add more here seeing the images.

Aside from the fact I've never come across any reference to WAAFs serving operationally with ASR units (outside clerical and admin type roles), the blouse seems wrong. I can't see why anyone male or female would wear a badge on each sleeve when it was only permitted on one, or how they'd get away with it.

Also, the ASR badge was abolished in 1948, but the blouse has eagles on blue/grey backing, which were first introduced in 1949. I'd also expect the telecommunications badges to be on blue/grey, if of that period too for the same reason. The eagle on the right looks to have rough stitching around the edges which leads me to think they have been removed from something else, although I'm looking at the photos on a mobile so may be wrong.

Also its a wartime blouse, not the open necked version introduced in 1948.

With those eagles it would have to be 1949 at the earliest, which means she's wearing obsolete badges, in an unofficial way, on an obsolete blouse, with outdated telecoms badges.

For me its a dud I'm afraid.

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by SAS1

I don't like this myself Steve. Sorry I didn't get around to answering your PM, but I can add more here seeing the images.

Aside from the fact I've never come across any reference to WAAFs serving operationally with ASR units (outside clerical roles), the blouse seems wrong. I can't see why anyone male or female would wear a badge on each sleeve when it was only permitted on the right sleeve, or how they'd get away with it.

Also, the ASR badge was abolished in 1948, but the blouse has eagles on blue/grey backing, which were first introduced in 1949. I'd also expect the telecommunications badges to be on blue/grey, if of that period too for the same reason. The eagle on the right looks to have rough stitching around the edges which leads me to think they have been removed from something else, although I'm looking at the photos on a mobile so may be wrong.

Also its a wartime blouse, not the open necked version introduced in 1948.

With those eagles it would have to be 1949 at the earliest, which means she's wearing obsolete badges, in an unofficial way, on an obsolete blouse, with outdated telecoms badges.

For me its a dud I'm afraid.

I will do some better pics wednsday mean while
the eagles on each arm are not the ones introduced in 1949 they are earlyer than that I would date this to late 45-46 period I know that they had wraf Personel at calshot as i have photos of them in the distance but nothing close up the badges dont appear To have been reatached or added to the tunic it came in with a WRAF cap and trousers trousers are 1944 dated the cap is 1943 dated i spent over 1.5 hrs removeing the traces of moth from it 1 ASR badge has a moth hole going through it and into the blouse and then into the arm ie straight through it its going to be a while before i can get to my photos of the ASR service is there a copy of the wraf dress regs any where ? I know that the RAF only wore the badge on one arm but was it the same for the WRAF'S ? STEVE

[dragon166]

The eagles shown on this tunic are the much later "indistinct" budgie type of the 1960s-1970sand, if the background is darker blue dates from post 1972. I would have expected to see only printed badges on this age tunic. Further more, the other badges are of differing periods. The communications/ wireless op badge was also only worn on one arm whether RAF or WAAF. The whole thing appears to be a mock-up, on an earlier tunic, which appears to be unworn if the label is anything to go by.

[SAS1]

Steve, the shoulder eagles first appeared on a blue/grey backing in 1949, prior to that they were on very dark blue, near black. When I first saw them and the actual shape of the bird, I thought they were the post 72 type which were also on dark blue, although not as dark as the wartime. I'm inclined to agree with dragon166 that these are the fat budgie type used from the 1960s onwards. They are DEFINITELY not wartime type.

I'd expect the telecoms badges to be matching too, ie with a blue/grey backing not very dark blue. Although not unheard of, I don't see why at that time a wartime blouse would have been worn instead of the new open necked type.

I just can't see any way that combination would have been worn together, when one lot of badges and blouse were worn when, consideringthe other badges, they were obsolete.

[badgeman]

see below

[badgeman]

Hi all,
All RAF and WAAF wore the same badges in the same place on the uniform, RAF/WAAF wartime cloth badges have dark blue/almost black backing, your're arm eagles are blue backing. Very early on in the war the badges were worn on both arms, but as the war progressed they were only worn on the right arm (to save much needed material, also from about 1941/42 the arm eagles became printed, this was also for economy, much the same way that brass badges were changed for Bakelite ones). These eagles are definitely not world war two because the eagles are too fat, I would hazard a guess that they are from the 1970's, also I would say that someone has made this BD up, you may have bought it from someone you trust, but he may not be up on his badges. I'm with everyone else on this. I have spoken to hundreds of RAF veterans male and female from all trades, I had a friend who was on ASR just after VE day (June 1945), he has told me that no WAAF entered a "Launch in Anger", yes they took them out when courting, but not on a "Job".
Sorry its not want you want to hear, but the badges are all wrong! Look at mine, the first is a tunic with Wartime Dark Blue/Black printed eagle and a non wartime inverted chevron, note the Blue backing on the chevron, this is 1948 dated, its the same as a wartime tunic in shape, cut, everything, it has wartime eagles on because either the wearer managed to get some, and put them on, as did my father, to make others think he was not a national serviceman, or the RAF had an abundance left and was using up old stock before issuing new!, the chevron however is not wartime
The second and third is all wartime and you can clearly see all the cloth badges backing is dark blue/black and the eagle is embroidered, this is also early war as both arms have rank.
BM

[SAS1]

Badgeman, The RAF started to change the backing of their badges from the dark blue/black to blue/grey in 1949. I'd suggest your first tunic was made in 1948 with the correct (for then) wartime style eagles with a dark backing, and was issued and worn post 1949 with the result that whilst retaining the wartime style eagles, the Good Conduct stripe (inverted chevron) was by then worn with a blue/grey backing.

Going back to the eagles on the WAAF BD that is the subject of the thread, the first backing used from 1949 was the blue/grey with more of an emphasis on the grey. If you look at the ASR badges they more closely match the colour of the uniform. Later on, into the 1960s a more blue blue/grey was used, and this is the colour that can be seen on the eagles on the BD. After 1972 they went back to a dark blue backing although not as dark as wartime. Those featured would date from about 1962 to, at latest, 1972, when the change back to a darker blue occurred.

I think I am right in saying that the last version of the ASR badge (seen here and issued from early 1944) is the only wartime badge for Other ranks that featured a blue/grey backing colour. Standard for all other ranks badges and titles was dark blue, near black, while officers were on the blue/grey. As the ASR badge was not permitted for wear by Officers its strange that it was made in that style, especially when the first three types were all made on dark blue.

[dragon166]

Badgeman's first tunic shows the rank of Junior Technician, which would suggest that that tunic was still being worn post 1951.

[SAS1]

Derr! Of course you are right Dragon, I didn't pay close enough attention to the fact that, aside from the position (upper arm) it shows the right sleeve, GC badges being worn on the left!

[badgeman]

I agree with both of you!, I was using the pictures to demonstrate that the ASR and other badges were not wartime, and whether any RAF badge was worn in WW2 by an officer or O/R's the backing was dark blue/black
BM

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by badgeman

I agree with both of you!, I was using the pictures to demonstrate that the ASR and other badges were not wartime, and whether any RAF badge was worn in WW2 by an officer or O/R's the backing was dark blue/black
BM

Hi BM
1st Thanks for the information reagrding the WRAF wearing patches this is what I wanted to Find out and the main reason for starting this thread .
How ever and Saidly the above statemnet is incorrect .
Other than the RAF ASR badge the above statment would be true The ASR badge here breaks the genral rules as proven in pictures , on original uniforms and in the film For Those In Peril ( produced in 1944 using actual crew as extras ) 1minute 15 seconds aprox into the film you can clearly see a flt sgt wearing the blue / gray backed ASR patch and others wearing verious other patches during the film I know this is the wovern type due to its design as the printed patches where only of the one shown in picture 1 there was a short lived example of this type showing the whale back launch embroiderd pic 2 , pic 3,4 and 5 Shows a 1944 original war service dress blouse with the blue gray ASR patch to the arm and pic 6 shows the late war 1944-5 patch on 2 original tunics which had the bow straighternd out to help with production of teh patch .
Intreasting bit to note also
1 : The patch was not just for wear buy those who served on the luanches as it was issued to all those who servied in the marine branch service as it was a denotion of branch of service rather than a quaifiction patch . and there for shore base personal WRAF included in this would have worn the patch if stationed at a ASR unit which was also a reason i wanted to find out about their badge allication and wearing of badges on there uniforms .
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ead.php?t=9940steve

[SAS1]

Steve

The Air/Sea Rescue badge was not issued to all who served in the Maritime Branch. Whilst you are correct in that it was not a trade badge it was granted in recognition of the dangers the Air/Sea Rescue crews put themselves in when rescuing downed aircrews, and so was worn only by those NCOs and Airmen who were actively engaged on 'operations' (IE on launches).

The badge was NOT worn by WAAFs who served in ASR units (few as they were - most 'ground' jobs such as cooks, clerks and the like being done by men), serving as clerks, or those girls who looked after the various items of safety gear in the Equipment Section. This latter group serviced equipment on the launches too. See the photos below taken circa late 1944.

Whilst made post war, and not as good as 'For Those in Peril', the early 50s film 'The Sea Shall Not Have Them' (also about ASR) features WAAFs, not wearing the badge.

[badgeman]

Hi all
Some FACTS about World War Two RAF/WAAF O'Rs NCOs and all Officers cloth badges.
Shoulder eagles on blue - POST WAR!! (From 1947)
Sealed pattern in pic above - only version allowed to be worn - on BLACK!
Picture 2 wartime badge - on BLACK!!
BD labels & BDs hanging on a rail mean nothing in this case - you can do wonders to a BD with a needle, some cotton & a pair of scissors.
Films and photos of BDs prove NOTHING - have you got a picture of ASR people wearing a blue-grey badge in WW2?
Blue-backed badges, LIKE the WRAF was a post-war invention
There was no such thing as the WRAF in WW2 - they were WAAFs (Women's Auxiliary Air Force)

If you don't know a question and ask, that's fine, but then not to listen and still believe what you want too well that's just fool hardy.

[badgeman]

A question for ASR142! is this and the badges original or made by me?