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  #1  
Old 09-05-21, 06:08 PM
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Default 1st WW "all GM" badges

For those who want to know which "All GM" badges were made in 1916
(Full details in Bulletin of the Military Historical Society, Vol 66, no 262 (November 2015), 78-88. )



New Patt - Previous Patt - Amount - Unit
Pattern Pattern ordered

6707A/1916 (6707/1907) 20,000 Royal Scots
4681A/1916 (4681/1898) 20,000[i] Queen’s (Royal West Surrey) Regiment
4554A/1916 (4554/1897) 15,000 Norfolk Regiment
4612B/1916 (4612A/1903) 20,000 Devonshire Regiment
4565B/1916 (4565A/1901) 15,000 Suffolk Regiment
4620A/1916 (4620/1898) 13,000 East Yorkshire Regiment
4521A/1916 (4521/1897) 15,000 Bedfordshire Regiment
4522A/1916 (4522/1897) 12,000 Leicestershire Regiment
4564A/1916 (4564/1897) 22,000 Cheshire Regiment
4643A/1916 (4643/1898) 27,000 Royal Welsh Fusiliers
4452A/1916 (4452/1896) 15,000 South Wales Borderers
4684A/1916 (4684/1898) 10,000 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers
4557B/1916 (4557A/1901) 7,000 East Lancashire Regiment
4607B/1916 (4607/1902) 12,000 East Surrey Regiment
4691A/1916 (43691/1898) 15,000 Royal Sussex Regiment
4622A/1916 (4622/1898) 12,000 Hampshire Regiment
4632B/1916 (4632A/1901) 5,000 Dorsetshire Regiment
4581A/1916 (4581/1897) 9,000 South Lancashire Regiment
4636A/1916 (4636/1898) 30,000 Welsh Regiment
4514B/1916 (4514/1901) 8,000 Essex Regiment
4639B/1916 (4639A/1901) 12,000 Northamptonshire Regiment
1890B/1916 (1890A/1899) 17,000 King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
4451A/1916 (4451/1896) 18,000 Middlesex Regiment
4493A/1916 (4493/1897) 15,000 North Staffordshire Regiment
4492A/1916 (4492/1897) 10,000 Leinster Regiment
4642A/1916 (4642/1898) 12,000 Royal Munster Fusiliers


New Previous Amount Unit
Pattern Pattern ordered
8381A/1916 (8381/1915) 2,000 1st Dragoon Guards
4692A/1916 (4692/1898) 2,000 6th Dragoons
4758B/1916 (4738A/1901) 1,000 7th Hussars
8650A/1916 (4650/1898) 1,000 10th Hussars
4693C/1916 (4693B/1905) 4,000 16th Lancers


Unpierced
Royal Artillery 9070/1916
Royal Engineers 8077/1916
Army Service Corps 9076/1916

Last edited by KLR; 09-05-21 at 06:20 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-05-21, 06:19 PM
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Our hobby owes you a great debt, thank you Julian.
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  #3  
Old 09-05-21, 06:22 PM
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Well done Julian.
Andy
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  #4  
Old 09-05-21, 06:25 PM
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Where does that leave the AVC badges that are frequently seen? They sell for upto £70.00 a piece.
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  #5  
Old 09-05-21, 07:08 PM
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All I could find was
The Royal Artillery and Royal Engineers badges were in GM as were all the Services with the exception of the Army Veterinary Corps whose badge comprised the letters AVC in WM within a crowned wreath of GM. The B&P list shows that this badge was exempted from the ‘wholly of gilding metal’ ruling.

and - regarding the 'unpierced' badges
The unpopularity of the unpierced badges was also recognised by the War Office. We have seen unpierced badges of the RFC and AVC which, if genuine, may have been a manufacturer’s unofficial response to cheaper production.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-21, 07:16 PM
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Thank you, Julian. A bit of a mystery then
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  #7  
Old 10-05-21, 11:53 AM
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Default Solid RFC

I have never seen a genuine unpierced RFC that is not the fake with the flaw below the crown. I would go as far as saying they do no exist.

However, I have seen one genuine RFC badge missing several voids around the monogram but even then it was not wholly solid and so evidently a Friday afternoon job rather than a simplified production set up.

If a genuine wholly solid badge ever did surface it would certainly be the exception and I would similarly attribute it to lack of quality control rather than a 1916 type order. Needless to say even as a collector of 1916 issues I am not seeking a solid RFC.

P.S. I do not ever recall seeing a solid GM Army Veterinary Corps badge.
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  #8  
Old 10-05-21, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Our hobby owes you a great debt, thank you Julian.
Hear, hear.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-21, 12:11 PM
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That is interesting Julian, thank you.

20.000 Devonshire Regiment, I have found 6 different dies so far, would a set of dies last for over 3,000 strikes I wonder?

Rob



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  #10  
Old 10-05-21, 01:39 PM
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Rob,

I am amazed at so many varieties, excellent collection.

regards
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  #11  
Old 10-05-21, 04:23 PM
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Thank you Simon.

Rob
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Old 10-05-21, 10:26 PM
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I have to wonder why they decided upon those production figures? 30,000 Welsh Regt and only 5000 Dorset.
A 7th or 10th Hussar must be a very scarce find with so few authorized for production.

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  #13  
Old 10-05-21, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
I have to wonder why they decided upon those production figures? 30,000 Welsh Regt and only 5000 Dorset.
A 7th or 10th Hussar must be a very scarce find with so few authorized for production.

CB
You do see them, there are certainly more 7th QOH around than 10H for sure.

Interestingly the type of 10H which comes with provenance is actually of two piece construction.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-21, 12:02 AM
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Yes, I believe I have seen the 7th, but not the 10th to my recollection.

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  #15  
Old 11-05-21, 10:23 AM
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Looking in Brigadier E A James book "British Regiments 1914-18" there is a table showing the total number of Battalions each Regiment had in WW1, there doesn't seem to be a direct correlation so maybe it would be more accurate without the Regular and Labour Battalions? and then some Battalions had their own badges such as the Hampshire Cyclists for example?

I have added the totals in red to Julian's list.

6707A/1916 (6707/1907) 20,000 Royal Scots 34
4681A/1916 (4681/1898) 20,000[i] Queen’s (Royal West Surrey) Regiment 27
4554A/1916 (4554/1897) 15,000 Norfolk Regiment 19
4612B/1916 (4612A/1903) 20,000 Devonshire Regiment 29
4565B/1916 (4565A/1901) 15,000 Suffolk Regiment 23
4620A/1916 (4620/1898) 13,000 East Yorkshire Regiment 19
4521A/1916 (4521/1897) 15,000 Bedfordshire Regiment 21
4522A/1916 (4522/1897) 12,000 Leicestershire Regiment 22
4564A/1916 (4564/1897) 22,000 Cheshire Regiment 38
4643A/1916 (4643/1898) 27,000 Royal Welsh Fusiliers 40
4452A/1916 (4452/1896) 15,000 South Wales Borderers 21
4684A/1916 (4684/1898) 10,000 Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 13
4557B/1916 (4557A/1901) 7,000 East Lancashire Regiment 17
4607B/1916 (4607/1902) 12,000 East Surrey Regiment 18
4691A/1916 (43691/1898) 15,000 Royal Sussex Regiment 26
4622A/1916 (4622/1898) 12,000 Hampshire Regiment 32
4632B/1916 (4632A/1901) 5,000 Dorsetshire Regiment 11
4581A/1916 (4581/1897) 9,000 South Lancashire Regiment 21
4636A/1916 (4636/1898) 30,000 Welsh Regiment 35
4514B/1916 (4514/1901) 8,000 Essex Regiment 30
4639B/1916 (4639A/1901) 12,000 Northamptonshire Regiment 13
1890B/1916 (1890A/1899) 17,000 King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 24
4451A/1916 (4451/1896) 18,000 Middlesex Regiment 49
4493A/1916 (4493/1897) 15,000 North Staffordshire Regiment 19
4492A/1916 (4492/1897) 10,000 Leinster Regiment 7
4642A/1916 (4642/1898) 12,000 Royal Munster Fusiliers 11
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