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  #1  
Old 04-01-21, 05:53 PM
citydrinker citydrinker is offline
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Default Kriegsmarine U Boat Front Clasp - Fake?

I hope nobody minds me posting this here.
I inherited lots of WWII badges & medals, predominantly British. Included amongst them is the one attached, which given the scarcity & value of real ones, plus my doubts about the quality of the casting, I think is a fake / reproduction.
The markings on the back seem in order, but the pin seems wrong.
All opinions welcomed.
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File Type: jpg 210104174105614.jpg (87.2 KB, 123 views)
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  #2  
Old 04-01-21, 06:31 PM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Cool Kriegsmarine U Boat Front Clasp

I think your Kriegsmarine U Boat Front Clasp has a replaced pin, the originals I'm sure would not have placed the pin obscuring the makers name.

As to whether it's original I cannot say for sure.

Rob
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  #3  
Old 04-01-21, 10:24 PM
Ashton Ashton is offline
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that badge is the poorest copy i have ever seen the badge has so many mistakes and the quality is real junk
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  #4  
Old 05-01-21, 02:36 AM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
that badge is the poorest copy i have ever seen the badge has so many mistakes and the quality is real junk
Hi Guys,

The badge is a genuine piece by Schwerin & Sohn. The makers text on the rear is as per original examples.

See page 752 - 764, U-Boat Front Clasp from The Kreigsmarine Awards Volume II by Sacha Weber and R. Skora.

The pin and clasp have been replaced as commented by Rob.

The only question is if it is the bronze or silver version. Guessing bronze from the images?

These badges were late war and made of zink with a bronze or silver wash/plate of some type applied. The zink over time repels the finish giving a blistering appearance. While some bronze badges can still be relatively free of 'blisters' it is unusual to find a silver badge blister free.

Both bronze and silver grades are very scarce/rare badges in good condition.

If with the original pin and in relatively good condition (with the exception of replaced pin this one seems to be especially the obverse side) it would be worth the following:

Bronze grade - around 750 Euro
Silver grade - around 1500 Euro

However, with a replaced pin it would be worth a lot, lot less.

I would see if you can date the pin to see if it could be WWII era and possibly a war time replacement but of course, this would be very difficult to establish.

Regards,

Chris
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  #5  
Old 05-01-21, 09:30 AM
arrestingu arrestingu is offline
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I think Chris is spot on .

Badge matches my silver version . Pin may be a period replacement , blistering is a good sign . The silver issues are scarce.
Regards steve
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  #6  
Old 05-01-21, 09:41 AM
MH331 MH331 is offline
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Try the Wehrmacht Awards Forum if you want further confirmation as this is not an SS or Fallschirmjager item you may get some well balanced and rational feedback
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  #7  
Old 05-01-21, 02:07 PM
Ashton Ashton is offline
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what are you guys on its a badly cast junk badge just because its got a maker mark it dosnt make it original its a really bad casting even 1944 badges were not that bad photos of early 44 and late one
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  #8  
Old 05-01-21, 03:42 PM
mm1 mm1 is online now
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Default clasp

Have to agree with Ashton - I used to have a few of these when I collected Third reich items and this is,in my opinion, a reproduction.Many repro 3rd reich items had reasonably reproduced makers marks/stamps etc. but on this example, does not correctly match genuine marks.

Mark

Last edited by mm1; 05-01-21 at 04:15 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-01-21, 03:42 PM
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Self deleted.

Last edited by Luke H; 05-01-21 at 03:49 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-01-21, 05:04 PM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MH331 View Post
Try the Wehrmacht Awards Forum if you want further confirmation as this is not an SS or Fallschirmjager item you may get some well balanced and rational feedback
You MIGHT get some "well balanced and rational feedback" from WAF, but that forum is not known for such, at least not these days.
This is not the forum for this material, and I can already detect some acrimony creeping in, which is endemic to the subject.

CB
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  #11  
Old 05-01-21, 05:54 PM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
what are you guys on its a badly cast junk badge just because its got a maker mark it dosnt make it original its a really bad casting even 1944 badges were not that bad photos of early 44 and late one
Ashton,

As I said:

see pages 752 - 764, U-Boat Front Clasp from The Kreigsmarine Awards Volume II by Sacha Weber and R. Skora.

The maker mark exactly reconciles and the badge is not cast but hot die forged.

Chris
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  #12  
Old 05-01-21, 08:38 PM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Hi Guys,

Here are some images of a genuine bronze item from my collection - note the small amount of 'blistering' to the reverse where the zink is trying to repel the bronze finish.

In the image with maker mark - note the shape and size of the letters in 'AUSF' and 'BERLIN 68' especially the 'S" in 'AUSF' and the 'I' in 'BERLIN'.

These reconcile with the image in post #1 and also reconciles with Weber and Skora's work which has not been surpassed.

The badge shown by citydrinker is genuine albeit with replaced pin. And no, I'm not on anything but I do take research into such matters quite seriously and I don't dimiss items just on their initial appearance.

Regards,

Chris
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  #13  
Old 05-01-21, 08:43 PM
citydrinker citydrinker is offline
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Er... sorry to have opened a can of worms with this one. Thank you all for your responses which I will consider at length. For what its worth, an auction house close to me did take a look at it a couple of years ago and was not prepared to hang their hat on it being an original.
Whatever, I find it interesting and am lucky enough not to have to worry too much about its value. I just would like to know for certain whether it is a fake / repro. I will endeavour to post micro pictures in natural day-light in the next few days, if that helps.
Personally, I lean towards fake / repro, but what do I know....?
Thanks again.
Keith.
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  #14  
Old 05-01-21, 08:44 PM
citydrinker citydrinker is offline
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Just seen your latest reply hagwalther. Thanks. I will think on this.
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  #15  
Old 05-01-21, 08:46 PM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydrinker View Post
Just seen your latest reply hagwalther. Thanks. I will think on this.
Sounds good.

All the best,

Chris
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