K&K 1424 (Classification Error)?

[GriffMJ]

Hi All

I dont have the K&K Books (yet), but since being on the Forum its becoming clear that the Vol2 has a possible classification error between two Leicestershire Yeomanry Badges.

K&K 1424 is pictured as the badge below:-

There is a Wm & Brass version of this badge (2747Andy has an example of the Brass version).

The above cap & collar badges were worn, by all ranks from 1928-40. This badge started life as an Officers collar badge c1910.

There was an Officer's solid Silver (hallmarked) and a silver plate officers version (KK1424) as seen below:-


The "different" badge (below), that is pictured in Gaylors book (Plate 33), is worn c1940-57 (not 1922-66 as stated). This is a WW2 issue badge and not earlier, the first time it makes an appearance in a any phots is post 1940. It appears to be unlisted in K&K (unless somebody can provide the proof)?

S/Silver, OSD, Brass & White Metal versions are made.


There is also another "different" badge (as shown below), I dont know if this is WW1 or WW2....... but it is not the same as the two above. The scroll ends are "level" with the "end tips" of the lower coronet as opposed to above them. It also has two folders (the only one of its kind I have seen to date). There is a Bronze version of the 1938-56..... so why have another unless its from a different period (this makes me think WW1).

[GriffMJ]

Here is a puzzle....... this is what I think..... would you agree? (Pic is 1915)

Captain O. Kaye was a PSI RSM and was at Frezenberg, he was commisioned shortly after and became Adjutant of the 3rd/1st LYPAO.

Cap Badge: Notice the rounded lower edge to the lower scroll, just like K&K1318.
Collar Badge: Notice the pronounced bump at the lower scroll on the collar...... exactly as the "Un-Classified" badge. (This bump is not as pronounced on K&K1424, also notice the "stepped" scroll folds not seen in the K&K1424).

[Alan O]

Griff,

1318 is the pre1908 Imperial Yeomanry badge so if the ex-RSM is wearing it then he seems to have held onto his old Imperial badge.

K&K 1424 seems to be more like the WW2 brass one that you show. The 3 feather tops all touch the top Leicestershire scroll's bottom edge where as only the central one does on the w/m one. If anything it is the w/m one that is not in K&K Vol2.

Alan

[GriffMJ]

Hi Alan

There is a difference in all 5 "Berts Crests".

For example, look at the scroll "folds" and all are different..... take a close look (thats just one example).

See if you can spot more differences..... I can

[Alan O]

With a copy of K&K in my hand I am sure that the one shown as 1424 is the far right hand one in your set of 5 (1938-57) and not the one you have labelled (1910-28). The tower is shorter and has more tapering sides.

K&K do not show minor makers' variations in fact it does not show some significant variations.

Alan

[GriffMJ]

Hi Alan

If the two left right feathers have a void betwwn their tips and the leicestershire scroll then it is the 1910-39 pattern. If all three feathers touch the scroll then it is the 1939-57 Pattern. (as a quick guide, there are other differences as well).

1910-39 has a tower that is one mm thinner than the 1939-57.

1910-39 has different scroll joins to that of the K&K1318 and the Officers 1914-17 and the 1939-57.

There are other "shape" diifferences as well in all 5.

[Alan O]

Perhaps someone else with a K&K Vol 2 and a fresh pair of eyes could comment?

Alan

[Lancer 17]

Hi Griff

Have a look at Lew Shottons list ie Clanfield Militeria, he shows a vol 1 in his photo gallery its not listed any where else on his site, as I remember it he has 40 pounds on it, sorry I got the Vol 2 off him last year. Also try looking on ABE Books web site.

Regards

Phil.

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Phil,

I have the two Volumes on my "to get" list...... I have just purchased "Cavalry and Yeomanry Badges of the British Army, 1914 by Wilkinson"..... I know this only covers up to 1914..... but I am very interested in what he has in his book about the LY, probably very little?

[GriffMJ]

(Unclassified: Possibly by Jennens) 1915-19 Bronze


(not K&K1424 or the unclassified shown) c1939-57 Bronze by J R Gaunt.