Unusual Collar Badge

[dragon166]

I recently bought this unusual collar badge. The use of the King‘s crown version of this badge is well known, on the Patrol Dress jacket and by musicians in Malaya. However no reason for the Queen’s crown version can be found, other than a comment in the Professor Thomas Collection, where he indicated it was worn on SNCO Mess Dress. As I can find no pictures of that uniform this can not be confirmed. The only other use I could think of is the original issues of the WRAF hostess style hat, introduced in 1960, a good 10 years before the introduction of the full size anodised badges. However personal recollections of some 1960 WRAF members was that they never had to clean the badge on their hats, which would suggest anodised versions.
The badge is also of unusual construction. The body is the standard pressing but the crown is cast and has been added, however the construction is factory made and indiscernible from the front.
Does anyone know of a use for this badge?

[RAY WALKLING]

Page 8 of Defence Council Instructions S26/1970 (RAF) authorises the continued wearing of Patrol Dress (Home), I think this solves your query.

[dragon166]

Thanks you for the reply Ray, do you have further detail from the DCI? The only Patrol Dress I have seen in photos or Museums are all pre 1939. In my service (1969 - 1999) I never saw any reference to or wearing of any type of Patrol Dress yet your reference suggests that it would have been worn in the 1940s/50s and 60s!!
Dave

[RAY WALKLING]

At my first dining in night, as a newly promoted Sergeant, at the Sgts' Mess RAF Stanmore Park in Jan 1962. On the top table amongst the guests was WO Fred Joyce (from the the staff of CAS) resplendent in his Patrol Dress, the only airman I ever saw wearing this uniform during my service (1954 to 1992).

[dragon166]

Thanks Ray for the info - shame there are no pictures.
Dave

[Frank Kelley]

I would certainly be interested to see any photographs of Patrol Dress actually being worn.

[dragon166]

Here are the only two I have been able to find, both of which I have coloured. Both are from the 1930s.
Dave

[RAY WALKLING]

Further to my first msg on this subject, the remarks column of reference state "Obsolescent optional dress for wear in messes or when walking out. May be worn optionally by those who possess it while it remains presentable enough for Mess wear"
For the record the superseding dress regulations of 1973 do not contain any reference to No. 5 Dress (0bsolescent)

[dragon166]

Thanks very much Ray for the most interesting details. It has now been added to my book.
Dave

[dragon166]

Another 2 pictures of Patrol Dress have appeared, showing a Flt Sgt Pilot and a PTI (No collar badges).
Dave

[Frank Kelley]

Is the PTI tunic on public display, you can clearly see that a collar badge was worn at some point.

Originally Posted by dragon166

Another 2 pictures of Patrol Dress have appeared, showing a Flt Sgt Pilot and a PTI (No collar badges).
Dave

[dragon166]

I agree that the tunic looks as if it did have collars at some time. I was sent the photos by a friend so I'm afraid that I don't know where it is displayed. I showed it here because of the PTI badge being worn.
Dave

[blueboy684]

I took the photo a very long time ago whilst in the RAF serving at RAF Valley on Anglesey in the late 1990's. I seem to remember that we were on a family outing somewhere in North Wales when we came upon a display case with the (then unknown) patrol dress uniform displayed in. I couldn't get a clear shot of the uniform because of the reflections from the glass and the limitations of my photography skills!

I did remember that there was the old style PTI badge but i can't remember if there were collar badges, although it certainly looks like they WERE there at one time.

Unfortunately, i just can't remember where we were - or what else was there i was shocked that there was an RAF uniform which i had never seen before which is why i took the photo!

[Frank Kelley]

That is certainly a very interesting photograph, I'm not surprised you had never seen Patrol Dress before as it only had limited use for a very short period of time until 1939.
I have to say that I am very surprised to read in this thread that it was subsequently worn by at least one Warrant Officer as late as 1962.

Originally Posted by blueboy684

I took the photo a very long time ago whilst in the RAF serving at RAF Valley on Anglesey in the late 1990's. I seem to remember that we were on a family outing somewhere in North Wales when we came upon a display case with the (then unknown) patrol dress uniform displayed in. I couldn't get a clear shot of the uniform because of the reflections from the glass and the limitations of my photography skills!

I did remember that there was the old style PTI badge but i can't remember if there were collar badges, although it certainly looks like they WERE there at one time.

Unfortunately, i just can't remember where we were - or what else was there i was shocked that there was an RAF uniform which i had never seen before which is why i took the photo!

[Alanp]

I have a patrol dress uniform, privately purchasedd and made in Lahore. The rank markings are on only one arm and the cap is made without any stiffening and I doubt if it was capable of being worn