British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > The Home Front

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #256  
Old 26-03-21, 01:28 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post

Interesting that my nickel plated badge carries the "fire gilt" backstamp.

Any comments on the enameled badge?

I'm sure that these nickeled/ enameled badges had some function to indicate seniority or status
My view is that these are 'post production' variations as the nickel/silver/chrome badges appear to be standard badges (by various manufacturers and different series) that have been 'plated' after the number has been stamped on the rear (either on horseshoe fitting or directly on the Wooley examples).

Regarding certain badges being seniority/status related , I personally feel there is no evidence to back this up. While it is possible that certain factories may have wanted to differentiate between levels of staff , it is probable that individuals simply wanted to 'enhance' their own badges (possibly after their employment finished).

It is worth remembering that Tom Tulloch-Marshall (2001) , and later Tony James (2012) , both were of the opinion that the series letters on the 1915 OWS badges were possibly indications of the trade/position of the employee. This 'theory' is no longer accepted but shows that even 9 years ago there were details about these badges that further research has shown to be inaccurate.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #257  
Old 26-03-21, 09:52 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Hi Leigh

Thanks for that. Don't you just love the iconography of the winged cherub (putti?) with flaming cornucopia that, presumably, contains phosphorus!

His attire must have led him to get a little burnt from time to time....

As I posted this, I was reminded how, when I got it off eB*y, I had a sweet note from the seller apologising for the delay in sending as she had been temporarily banned from the site for selling something with a Nazi connection.

Anyway, medal arrived in fairly short order. How I miss those days.....
Reply With Quote
  #258  
Old 26-03-21, 09:58 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
My view is that these are 'post production' variations as the nickel/silver/chrome badges appear to be standard badges (by various manufacturers and different series) that have been 'plated' after the number has been stamped on the rear (either on horseshoe fitting or directly on the Wooley examples).

Regarding certain badges being seniority/status related , I personally feel there is no evidence to back this up. While it is possible that certain factories may have wanted to differentiate between levels of staff , it is probable that individuals simply wanted to 'enhance' their own badges (possibly after their employment finished).

It is worth remembering that Tom Tulloch-Marshall (2001) , and later Tony James (2012) , both were of the opinion that the series letters on the 1915 OWS badges were possibly indications of the trade/position of the employee. This 'theory' is no longer accepted but shows that even 9 years ago there were details about these badges that further research has shown to be inaccurate.

.
Hi Mike

Another great informative post. Thanks for that.

I would think that seniority within the work place would have been indicated by something more visible such as an armband as it would be impractical to have to put your specs on to see that Mr Bloggs has a plated badge so he's the one I need to ask.

My question to anyone out there: have you seen another 1915 enameled badge? There must be more than one of them!
Reply With Quote
  #259  
Old 26-03-21, 10:00 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Oh yes, the old letter = trade classification debate. Can't see how this could possibly have worked....

Maybe one day we'll know more!
Reply With Quote
  #260  
Old 26-03-21, 10:06 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
Correct Mike, and the only maker (I think?) to punch the numbers on the badge itself

As for the "best" you are also right I think, only ever seen them on that issuer.

cheers, Tim
Hi Tim

Hope all well with you. When I see the 1915 renumbered badges, the renumbering is usually on the horseshoe fitting. My guess is that it would be virtually impossible to erase a number stamped into the reverse of a badge.

One of our veteran's associations from a certain area heavily stamped the badges almost like a serial number on a machine whereas other areas lightly engraved them.

The engraved badges could be renumbered and reissued, the stamped badges....NEVER.
Reply With Quote
  #261  
Old 20-04-21, 09:13 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
Picked up this last week off ebay (thanks CharlieDog), a nice and hard to find "V" issue with a rubbery disk I've not seen before.
There is a Mappin & Webb "R" series badge "with original leather backing and box" on eBay at the moment .

So now we've seen examples of metal , rubber and leather discs . These were possibly common items at the time but were later discarded if the material perished or they were mistaken for washers etc.

I have downloaded photos for future reference .

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted

Last edited by mike_vee; 20-04-21 at 09:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #262  
Old 25-04-21, 07:22 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
There is a Mappin & Webb "R" series badge "with original leather backing and box" on eBay at the moment .
It just went for £59.00 !

Two bidders were after it , so price shot up.

A couple of photos.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mappin & Webb 1915 Leather Disc 1.jpg (44.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Mappin & Webb 1915 Leather 2.jpg (74.7 KB, 32 views)
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #263  
Old 26-04-21, 10:42 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Hi Mike

I finally found it and was thinking of bidding but Lord Sugar beat me to it....

I certainly wouldn't have gone to that figure! Wonder if he would like some of my "doubles"?
Reply With Quote
  #264  
Old 26-04-21, 01:17 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
I finally found it and was thinking of bidding
I had it on my "watch list" but didn't bother bidding when I saw 2 others were going for it ... big time !

There is a very nice hallmarked silver enamelled "For War Service" fob/medallion (blue outer ring and green leaf wreath) I'm 'watching' at the moment but bids have already reached £51.00 and there are still 6 days to go.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #265  
Old 26-04-21, 03:15 PM
Charliedog012012's Avatar
Charliedog012012 Charliedog012012 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: A Yorkshireman in exile 'Up North' and an ‘Honorary Smoggie’.
Posts: 904
Default

The silver medallion is a lovely item and is drawing interest but I fear that the bidding will be too rich for me. However, I shall watch with interest from the sidelines.
__________________
He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed. (Albert Einstein)
Reply With Quote
  #266  
Old 26-04-21, 03:24 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliedog012012 View Post
The silver medallion is a lovely item and is drawing interest but I fear that the bidding will be too rich for me. However, I shall watch with interest from the sidelines.
A similar (possibly the same one ?) was in a 2016 Lockdale's Auction with a guide price of £60.00 - £65.00 but looks like it didn't sell as it was not on the 'prices realised' list .

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #267  
Old 02-05-21, 06:47 PM
Charliedog012012's Avatar
Charliedog012012 Charliedog012012 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: A Yorkshireman in exile 'Up North' and an ‘Honorary Smoggie’.
Posts: 904
Default

Well, it certainly drew some interest on eBay..........someone was really keen. It went for £161 !!!...phew!!!!
__________________
He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed. (Albert Einstein)
Reply With Quote
  #268  
Old 03-05-21, 07:30 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

I saw that , 2 bidders going for it ..... then someone who had earlier made one bid (£35.00) jumped in at the last second and beat them both !

Was surprised there wasn't more interest in "THE VC FACTORY" (National Shell Filling Factory No. 6, Chilwell) badge , it ended up going for £30.99.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old 06-05-21, 03:09 AM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 876
Default

Mike, I checked your “War Service “ album, did not see this badge there. Is it just a factory worker’s badge, not necessarily “War Time”?. If so, what era and is it traceable?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 893079D6-9205-42FD-8894-3497D303E2F4.jpg (38.1 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 3D832DF4-60F7-44AB-9031-4FE2A953385A.jpg (45.5 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #270  
Old 06-05-21, 08:23 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

When WW1 broke out numerous factories/companies produced their own "War Service" badges , the system was abused and the government stepped in.

Quote:
On the 27th March 1915, the War Office issued a memorandum about the 1915 and 1914 badges to recruiting officers, stressing that these were the only official badges. Private badges were still being issued by companies but these would not provide the wearer with any protection from accusations of “shirking and slacking” and did not enable the wearer to avoid compulsory military service, which was introduced in 1916.
British “On War Service” Badges 1914-1919


The Woolwich badge you posted is from WW2 , there "should" be a record somewhere of who it was issued to but a lot of paperwork was either lost or destroyed.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:23 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.