3 Division Canadian Corps patches

[Bill A]

RO 1839, effective May 23, 1917.
Paraphrased: Effective this date the 3 Division will substitute the French Gray patches 2 x 3 inches for the black one.

The black pattern patch had been in use since the fall of 1916.

[Raymond Gilbert]

Bill Any reason given for changing the colour of the flash three times in less of a year?

[Bill A]

No, but one can speculate that the black was not distinguishable in many circumstances.

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by James Gilbert

Bill Any reason given for changing the colour of the flash three times in less of a year?

Documents state that the white patch became dirty too quickly and the black was indistinguishable from the 2nd Div's Dark Blue.

[Obltkg4]

Further, is the attached image an accurate display of the black patch. I believed the Canadian 2nd Division employed this sample until commencement of Sep 08, 1939.
Is there anything which shows this in use by the 2nd Division.
Regards,
David

[Bill A]

Hello David, The shade of blue used in the FWW was much darker than that used in the SWW. There was considerable trouble trying to get the darker shade of blue for the SWW formation patch, so much so that the authorities decided to use the medium blue shade.
I am not sure about your point about the 2nd Div using the the patch until the start of the SWW. The First World War Canadian Corps was disbanded around 1919, and 2 Division ceased to exist. Some regiments in the militia that perpetuated the Canadian Corps battalions continued to wear formation patches, but this practice was ended in the late 20's.

[Obltkg4]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for response.
The information I have re: use until 1939 is based on a source, not in print. It was the only time I heard of this practice and as such didn't put much stock in to it.
Are you familiar with any use of the dark blue patch I provided during the FWW or SWW?
The trouble you elude to for the 2nd div in SWW I assume is based on the variance from any existing use in colours for battledress patch?

[Bill A]

Hi David, The darker blue patches were worn in the FWW and by some members of 2 Cdn Inf Div early in the SWW.
The problems with the colours are mentioned in achive documents. As well, if you compare the FWW patches with the SWW examples the colour difference is easily seen.

[Obltkg4]

Hi Bill, two things.
Would it be possible for you to link the thread with FWW sample (with image) and any image of that used in the SWW to compare with my dark blue.
Cheers

[Bill A]

Hi David, Here are examples of the FWW and SWW patches. The first one is the 29th Bn CEF, the second is the black example, CEF, the third is the 2nd Div SWW, and the last is the early 2nd Div SWW.

[Obltkg4]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi David, Here are examples of the FWW and SWW patches. The first one is the 29th Bn CEF, the second is the black example, CEF, the third is the 2nd Div SWW, and the last is the early 2nd Div SWW.

Big thanks!
Definitely agree with the colour difference easily seen.
I guess the 29 CEF is of wool consistency.
Cheers,
David

[Obltkg4]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi David, Here are examples of the FWW and SWW patches. The first one is the 29th Bn CEF, the second is the black example, CEF, the third is the 2nd Div SWW, and the last is the early 2nd Div SWW.

Hi Bill,
The fourth early SWW 2nd Div patch you quote is interesting.
Where did you source it as in use at this period?
As an aside, the second attachment is really the closest to the dark blue/black sample of mine.
Wouldn't want to figure this out if I were colour blind!
Regards,

[160464]

On the left is a RCE melton div. patch that has had the RCE plucked out. Top right is a printed flash, below it a melton one and under that a pair of very dark blue (or black?) flashes. What are these last ones? Hopefully the colours come across OK.

[Bill A]

Hi, the lower right patches appear to be the FWW pattern.