School of Musketry Senior NCO

[Postwarden]

A great portrait of what I believe to be a Quartermaster Sgt Instructor of the School. The medal looks like the early Long Service and Good Conduct.

Thoughts appreciated.

Jon

[manchesters]

Jon,

Agreed on all points.
Interestingly he will be wearing another set of KC over crossed rifles on each shoulder strap. Seen it in several other School of Musketry NCO photos, so 6 KC over crossed rifles in total!!, and could of course have more if he had any prize badges on the lower left arm.

regards

[Mercian]

I have just seen this on the Cheshire Regiment Museum site, quite interesting.

[manchesters]

George,

Just goes to show anything is possible with badges and dates and rules dont mean too much. Superb.

regards

[grumpy]

Very interesting.
Is the WW II identification as QMSI because that is his known appointment?

I ask because when, in 1938, the new rank of WO III was authorised, all existing WO II, whatever their appointment, had to change to the 1919 RQMS crown/wreath Until the final abandonment of WOIII [1947 from memory] the RQMS was indistinguishable from a CSM [as indeed he had been from May 1915 to September 1918]

So I believe that the man in the photo might be a CSM Instructor or any other appointment open to a WO II ....... and this of course includes RQMS Instructor if such an appointment existed in the unit.

I would add that I have no detailed knowledge of School of Musketry or Small Arms School infrastructure.

Standing by to be educated.

[kingsley]

Does anyone have a closeup photo of the collar badges worn by the QMS?
Never seen them. I have a photo in my files somewhere of the crossed rifles and crown hat badge worn in Australia by S of M instructors.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by kingsley

Does anyone have a closeup photo of the collar badges worn by the QMS?
Never seen them. I have a photo in my files somewhere of the crossed rifles and crown hat badge worn in Australia by S of M instructors.

The enclosed group image shows all the patterns of collar badge used by the SofM. The pattern seen in the photo is at bottom right and was introduced around 1907-08. In the period prior the King’s crown was worn for a short time, when the corps was ordered to wear ‘Garrison Staff’ insignia, including the Royal cypher as cap badge, during King Edward VII’s reign, a practice that was highly unpopular. Before that the QV crown over crossed rifles with slings was worn.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by grumpy

Very interesting.
Is the WW II identification as QMSI because that is his known appointment?

I ask because when, in 1938, the new rank of WO III was authorised, all existing WO II, whatever their appointment, had to change to the 1919 RQMS crown/wreath Until the final abandonment of WOIII [1947 from memory] the RQMS was indistinguishable from a CSM [as indeed he had been from May 1915 to September 1918]

So I believe that the man in the photo might be a CSM Instructor or any other appointment open to a WO II ....... and this of course includes RQMS Instructor if such an appointment existed in the unit.

I would add that I have no detailed knowledge of School of Musketry or Small Arms School infrastructure.

Standing by to be educated.

You are correct, Grumpy, that in WW2 the SASC appointment shown was CSMI, and for the precise reason that you have outlined. It was not until after WW2, once the WO3’s had all been phased out that the appointment reverted to QMSI.

Very interesting to see the MGC badges in use in that manner. The fact that they are above his badge of appointment implies their use as a skill at arms badge. I’m unsure when the order was given to cease wearing crossed rifles below the appointment badge, and at what point the practice was resurrected.

[Frank Kelley]

I think it is a really superb photograph, the golden age, before the world went mad, excellent.

Originally Posted by Postwarden

A great portrait of what I believe to be a Quartermaster Sgt Instructor of the School. The medal looks like the early Long Service and Good Conduct.

Thoughts appreciated.

Jon