British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Photographs of British Servicemen and Women Wearing Insignia

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20-01-22, 10:36 AM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default Light Infantry Connection SEC Cap Badge ? Essex?

An interesting cabinet card recently acquired showing a young man serving with an unknown Unit which I thought I would share for Forum Members views.

Although not of the best quality the photograph shows he is wearing blackened light infantry bugle style collar badges and buttons and has a similar strung bugle badge in his cap, interestingly under the cap badge are the letters 'SEC', similar in form to a metal shoulder title.

Photographed at the B Barry Studio, Barking Road, London which may have some bearing on the identification of the Unit in question.

An internet search for 'SEC' as a Military Unit has not thrown up anything definite although I wondered if the 'E' could refer to Essex bearing in mind the Studio Location.

Another thing that struck me was the fact that the cap and collar badges have the flared open end of the bugle to the viewers right whilst the majority of Light Infantry badges I have seen face to the left.

Any views or thoughts on identification would be most welcome.

Regards, Simon.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SUNP0001 (27).jpg (45.6 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg SUNP0001 (28).jpg (44.7 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg SUNP0003 (21).jpg (55.0 KB, 81 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20-01-22, 10:43 AM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,032
Default

Presumably the cap bugle is a collar badge or shoulder title / "trade" badge from a facing pair.
The buttons appear to be darkened metal rather than of horn.
Possibly "SHC"?

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 20-01-22 at 10:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20-01-22, 10:44 AM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

I imagine so Leigh as it appears to be identical in shape and size to his collar badges.

Simon
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-01-22, 11:06 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,724
Default

Fascinating photo. The blackened bugle horns are a mystery indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20-01-22, 11:10 AM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Fascinating photo. The blackened bugle horns are a mystery indeed.
Has had me stumped for some time now, an interesting mystery which hopefully someone may be able to shed some light on.

Regards, Simon.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-01-22, 05:08 PM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,694
Default

I still cant the initial image
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-01-22, 10:30 PM
3dg's Avatar
3dg 3dg is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,820
Default

Young lad, Cadets for the C of the title maybe?
Where is Clifton House, Barking Road? London?
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-01-22, 10:41 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,905
Default

Don’t believe Clifton House still exists according to Google.

Barking Road runs more or less from Canning Town near Leamouth to East Ham and the river Roding. So Essex as it would’ve been back then as pointed out in the opening post, but very much East End of London now.

What is the collar badge? That may shed some light.

Last edited by Luke H; 24-01-22 at 01:31 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-01-22, 11:35 PM
kingsley kingsley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,020
Default

No idea at all what SEC might stand for. A bugle badge like this usually indicates a Rifle Vols regiment anywhere in the British Empire after 1860 and were made in a variety of sizes and die variations.
Does the badge in the photo have a QVC?
Really fascinating to see the cap badge facing to the right because one of these was illustrated in Grebert's book on pre-federation Australian colonial badges, described as Melbourne Rifles 1864. I do have a facing pair.
An oxidised king's crown version was sold recently on Ebay.
I would be interested in any comments on the attached scans.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WMbugle.jpg (68.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg bugletrades.jpg (42.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg KCbugle.jpg (48.3 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by kingsley; 22-01-22 at 11:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-01-22, 09:07 AM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

Will have another look at the cap and collar badges under a more powerful glass and report back later today.

Regards, Simon.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23-01-22, 11:31 AM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

Luke

Having now had an opportunity to view the photograph with a powerful glass all I can say is that the collar badges are the classic strung bugle design in a black or very dark metal and both are identical, facing to the right.

Kingsley

Again under a more powerful glass I can confirm that there is no trace of a Crown on the cap badge, strung bugle with the cords knotted at the top and tassles hanging down within the arch of the bugle.

Interestingly I can just about make out what appears to be a three part shoulder title badge on his epaulettes but they are at such an angle that no detail can be seen unfortunately.

Simon
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23-01-22, 09:21 PM
adb63's Avatar
adb63 adb63 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 164
Default SEC

Hi.
A possible candidate from Ray Westlake's 'A register of Territorial Force Cadet Units 1910-1922' is 'South Essex Company, 17th, The Boys Brigade (East Ham Cadets). Recognised 16.12.12 (Essex) (AO 86/13). Recognition withdrawn by AO 373/13'.
It certainly fits the lettering on the cap and the location of the photographer!
Regards, Andrew.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23-01-22, 09:23 PM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

Andrew,

Many thanks for that, as you say, certainly fits with the badge and location, will do some further digging to see if i can confirm the identification.

Regards, Simon.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 23-01-22, 09:26 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,905
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adb63 View Post
Hi.
A possible candidate from Ray Westlake's 'A register of Territorial Force Cadet Units 1910-1922' is 'South Essex Company, 17th, The Boys Brigade (East Ham Cadets). Recognised 16.12.12 (Essex) (AO 86/13). Recognition withdrawn by AO 373/13'.
It certainly fits the lettering on the cap and the location of the photographer!
Regards, Andrew.
I like this idea. Great info.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 23-01-22, 09:44 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adb63 View Post
Hi.
A possible candidate from Ray Westlake's 'A register of Territorial Force Cadet Units 1910-1922' is 'South Essex Company, 17th, The Boys Brigade (East Ham Cadets). Recognised 16.12.12 (Essex) (AO 86/13). Recognition withdrawn by AO 373/13'.
It certainly fits the lettering on the cap and the location of the photographer!
Regards, Andrew.
Well done, a perfect fit, BB bugles and all that.

A rare Cadet Corps uniform.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.