RN Regulators/RM Police/RN Police Service

[sailorbear]

Hi all, would like to pose some questions on insignia worn by the Royal Naval Regulating Branch, Royal Marines Police ( the modern RM military police/provost, not the Civilian Royal Marine Police that were the forerunner of the Admiralty constabulary) and the present Royal Navy Police Service, which hopefully someone may be able to answer?

1. Did/do the Royal Marines Police wear metal RMP shoulder titles (staybright or brass) of the style of the Army Royal Military Police or do they wear the standard metal RM titles?

I once had (and stupidly sold!) a Red R Crown M on black armband, was this worn by RM police or was it worn the same as the Royal Navy NP wristlett by any duty personnel? what would the RN Police wear? possibley the army black on scarlet MP armband?

I have a gold on black cloth shoulder title bearing the words Master At Arms, was this ever worn by the Royal Navy or is it a Merchant Navy item?


Can anyone tell me what cap tallies would be worn by personnel drafted to the following units:

Joint Service Police School Southwick Park (Ex HMS Dryad)

Joint Service Police Unit Falklands (Mount Pleasent Airport)

Joint Service Police Unit Cyprus

Joint Service Police Unit Gibraltar

British Indian Ocean Territory Police Service Diago Garcia (and any other insignia worn by sailors and marines sworn in a constables in this force)

Lastly I have notice that the present Royal Navy Police Service wear epaulettes bearing the words RN Police, are there any other new types of insignia now being worn?

I look forward to hopefully some interesting replies

Regards Tony

[Snowdrop 68]

Hi Tony,

The RN personnel in the JSPSU Falklands wear berets as they wear DPM uniform. I was there serving with them last year (I'm RAFP). I was in Cyprus a few weeks ago and currently there are no RN personnel serving in CJPU (Cyprus Joint Police Unit). Never noticed what the Reggies were wearing at Southwick when I was last there but I can make a few calls and find out.

Hope this helps, I'll try and ask about with regards to your other questions.

Regards

Bill

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

Hi Tony,

The RN personnel in the JSPSU Falklands wear berets as they wear DPM uniform. I was there serving with them last year (I'm RAFP). I was in Cyprus a few weeks ago and currently there are no RN personnel serving in CJPU (Cyprus Joint Police Unit). Never noticed what the Reggies were wearing at Southwick when I was last there but I can make a few calls and find out.

Hope this helps, I'll try and ask about with regards to your other questions.

Regards

Bill

Hi bill, Thanks for that, always good to get some info from people actually in the know! Was in the falkland myself in 2004 (East cove military port) and noticed on the frequent trips to the police station at MPA to get permission to drive up to Stanley, that the RN regulators had the NP wristlett cut to a square and sewn on a DPM brazzard, though I believe all 3 services now wear the standard black on red MP patch?

Found a llist of RN uniform scales online which explains a little bit on the insignia of the RN/RM personnel sworn in as Royal Overseas Police Officers (ROPO) with the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) Police. they wear standard RM/RAF stone shirts, shorts, trousers and stockings with RAF issue desert boots MoD Police caps with BIOT Police cap badges and patches (would love to see what they look like?) the scale also mentions the RN Police Service and shoulder title RN Police gold enbroidered on blue and blue enbroidered on white? once again I love to see an example? There are other RN Reg branch units which I'd like to find what cap tally they wore but as I dont know the exact unit names it may be difficult, but would like to find out what was worn by the RN reggies posted to SHAPE in Belgium, the RN unit in Naples and the units in the Caribbean and USA and what uniform or other badges they wore?

Any further information you may dig up would be of great interest.

Regards Tony

[Snowdrop 68]

Tony, have emailed a collegue in Diego Garcia and asked her for some pics of badges and uniforms, will forward them on if and when I get them.

Bill

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

Tony, have emailed a collegue in Diego Garcia and asked her for some pics of badges and uniforms, will forward them on if and when I get them.

Bill

Many Many thanks

[Jim Maclean]

In No1s they are now wearing mudguards with ROYAL NAVY over POLICE.

First time I've ever seen R.N. personnel in an obviously R.N. uniform wearing something with Royal Navy on it.

With the epaulette slip ons I've seen both RN POLICE and POLICE under the rank insignia.

[Snowdrop 68]

I got an email this morning from my mate at DG, should have said earlier, she's RMP, but it's not her fault!lol:

"Reference what badges we wear out here, we dont. If u have a look at some of my photo's, we are in MDP kit. Black trousers and white shirt. We only wear the police badge as we are seen as civilian police. Many people on the island dont realise we are even in the military. We are classed as ROPO's, (Royal Overseas Police Officers). We dont even have a rank out here. I am just ROPO 5."

I've asked for details of the cap badges and shoulder boards worn. The girl in the KD uniform is an RAF Police ATSy (Customs) officer.

In the photos enclosed you can see a couple of good examples of the RNP shoulder mudguards, this was at an official function and the cap tally. Hopefully I am getting a few more pics so will post them when recieved.

The one in Desert DPM is me and an RPO in Seeb, Oman at the begining of this year.

Hope this helps. Bill

[Jim Maclean]

A couple of the photos there shows a lot of the mentality. You and the RPO, he's got ROYAL NAVY over his right pocket and the full mudguards, bloody wonder it doesn't say RN POLICE under the crossed hooks.

RN regulators have long been regarded as little more than postmen of the fleet. Ashore there is adequate cover by MDP, at sea there is little need, indeed they do not serve on submarines. QRRN, etc., does not need legal training to read.

The pics of the mudguards on No6(?) uniform reinforces it. ROYAL NAVY indeed. As far as I know tradition dictates that ROYAL NAVY doesn't appear on the regular uniform, we're supposed to be able to remember and the uniform itself tells others. On camo it's different but don't be gaudy.

O/T Bit

The other pic that struck me isn't really police related, it's the one of your friend with the RN medic. When they RN integrated the WRNS, the WRNS uniform went to the bin and they dressed them as men. That photo is a testament to a cock-up. Your oppo is one fair cop.Elegance in khaki!

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Jim Maclean

A couple of the photos there shows a lot of the mentality. You and the RPO, he's got ROYAL NAVY over his right pocket and the full mudguards, bloody wonder it doesn't say RN POLICE under the crossed hooks.

RN regulators have long been regarded as little more than postmen of the fleet. Ashore there is adequate cover by MDP, at sea there is little need, indeed they do not serve on submarines. QRRN, etc., does not need legal training to read.

The pics of the mudguards on No6(?) uniform reinforces it. ROYAL NAVY indeed. As far as I know tradition dictates that ROYAL NAVY doesn't appear on the regular uniform, we're supposed to be able to remember and the uniform itself tells others. On camo it's different but don't be gaudy.

O/T Bit

The other pic that struck me isn't really police related, it's the one of your friend with the RN medic. When they RN integrated the WRNS, the WRNS uniform went to the bin and they dressed them as men. That photo is a testament to a cock-up. Your oppo is one fair cop.Elegance in khaki!

Firstly Thanks to Bill for the pics, really great!

Got to take issue (though not too seriously)with some of Jims comments! I would'nt say the reggies were seen in the mob as just postmen, true they dont always have the greatest respect or admiration from jack and are often regarded as people who failed in their own branch, but anyone whose been nicked outside Joannas in Pompey by a 'crusher' and carted off to the cells for the night, to face the XO in the morning in the company of the jossman is very aware that they are coppers! Now with centralised training and a tri service discipline act they are very much Service Police (got blue flashy lights and sirens and stab vests and all - really p**ses the MDP off!) and the RN Police mudguards merely indicate that they are service policemen and not just matlots! (as if being thick, pig ugly and having no oppo's was'nt evidence enough)

As for the MDP giving adequate cover, well the mod plod have limited authority over service personnel, are hated by all service police and any matlot would rather be nicked by his own kind (IE a sailor) than some civvy plastic plod! worth noting that the RN Provost always patrolled and worked with Hampshire constabulary but never the MDP.

Must aggree whole heartedly though with the comments on Jenny now dressing in male uniforms, really does'nt do anything for the girls and where is Jack suppossed to get skirts and stockings to dress up in now?

[Sunray9]

Don't suppose they've got any vacancies out there in Diego Garcia...... I could make the tea !

[Jim Maclean]

Originally Posted by sailorbear

Firstly Thanks to Bill for the pics, really great!

Got to take issue (though not too seriously)with some of Jims comments! I would'nt say the reggies were seen in the mob as just postmen, true they dont always have the greatest respect or admiration from jack and are often regarded as people who failed in their own branch, but anyone whose been nicked outside Joannas in Pompey by a 'crusher' and carted off to the cells for the night, to face the XO in the morning in the company of the jossman is very aware that they are coppers! Now with centralised training and a tri service discipline act they are very much Service Police (got blue flashy lights and sirens and stab vests and all - really p**ses the MDP off!) and the RN Police mudguards merely indicate that they are service policemen and not just matlots! (as if being thick, pig ugly and having no oppo's was'nt evidence enough)

As for the MDP giving adequate cover, well the mod plod have limited authority over service personnel, are hated by all service police and any matlot would rather be nicked by his own kind (IE a sailor) than some civvy plastic plod! worth noting that the RN Provost always patrolled and worked with Hampshire constabulary but never the MDP.

Must aggree whole heartedly though with the comments on Jenny now dressing in male uniforms, really does'nt do anything for the girls and where is Jack suppossed to get skirts and stockings to dress up in now?

I suppose I was a bit harsh. I did meet a couple of decent regulators.

I think mostly regulators suffered from an identity crisis, after all police in the army and air force have their identity by way of their cap colours. The poor old regulator only had a huge crown on his arm. The other services also have nicknames that are not exactly disrespectful, i.e. Snowdrop and Redcap ask any matelot what the nickname for a regulator is and the most polite you'll get is "Crusher" but probably woldn't top the poll.

Back to your original post, there were cuffbands worn by non regulating branch when on shore patrol or gate guard duty. This was a white canvas band edged with blue with N crown P on for junior rates and a plain crown for senior rates.

Jack has got to buy his own stockings and sussies now. (Remembers well a SODS opera beauty contest mid Atlantic when the ROs mess won with the most fetching entrant. Scarred many a young lad for life)

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Jim Maclean

I suppose I was a bit harsh. I did meet a couple of decent regulators.

I think mostly regulators suffered from an identity crisis, after all police in the army and air force have their identity by way of their cap colours. The poor old regulator only had a huge crown on his arm. The other services also have nicknames that are not exactly disrespectful, i.e. Snowdrop and Redcap ask any matelot what the nickname for a regulator is and the most polite you'll get is "Crusher" but probably woldn't top the poll.

Back to your original post, there were cuffbands worn by non regulating branch when on shore patrol or gate guard duty. This was a white canvas band edged with blue with N crown P on for junior rates and a plain crown for senior rates.

Jack has got to buy his own stockings and sussies now. (Remembers well a SODS opera beauty contest mid Atlantic when the ROs mess won with the most fetching entrant. Scarred many a young lad for life)

Hmmm, Prehaps not so harsh! I knew a couple of half human reggies, but most like my D.O. at Cambridge, were of a description far to offensive to post post on here. As you probably noticed my opinion of the MDP is'nt that good either! As for the Army having non disrespectful names for the military police! I served 12 years with the army before leaving and joining the RN and we never called them red caps only Monkey's!.

I knew about the cuffbands, I wore one on many an occassion at sea and wore one for 2 years when bosuns mate at HMS cambridge! I was actually enquiring about Royal Marine cuffbands of which I once owned one but have never really known what it was used for?

Alway made me wonder though, when mid atlantic we had a SODS opera with very few wrens onboard, that jack could find so many pairs of stockings, sussies or basques and silk nickers onboard that fit so well !

[Snowdrop 68]

Tony,

Got another couple of pics for you including the badge.

Hope these are OK.

Bill

[sailorbear]

[QUOTE=Snowdrop 68;65154]Tony,

Got another couple of pics for you including the badge.

Hope these are OK.

Bill[/QUOTE

Cheers for that Bill, Really fantastic, very much appreciated, just got to do the impossible and find one now!

Regards Tony

[pembrokshireboy]

I recenly drove a matelot Royal Navy Police Officer in desert combats and he had the new mudguards on in desert colours and black on red MP badge on sleeve