Help please - Company of Archers?

[markism]

This was purchased along with a confirmed Company of Archers badge.

It is a large matt gilt piece attached to the leather end of a strap or belt, since trimmed. It has a lug on the reverse to engage the other end of the belt.

It is approx. 143mm by 58mm. I have looked at as many images of the Queen's Bodyguard for Scotland in uniform but cannot spot it being worn. The scrolls either side of the crown are similiar to those of the standard other ranks belt buckle. Hence my feeling it is RCA.

The two books on the QBGSRCA by Hay & Blair don't have images of badges, and the RCA's recent website only has the basic four uniform badges - hat, buckle, sash & hip illustrated.

Can anyone id it and state what it was used for?

Thanks for looking
Mark

[manchesters]

Mark,

Its their Waist Belt Clasp.

regards

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Mark,

Its their Waist Belt Clasp.

regards

Dress/Ceremonial/Presenation ?

I saw them numerous times in Edinburgh and they wore a different belt clasp , which is shown in British Army Badges by Robin Lt. Col. Hodges

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hTwAA...Fk/s-l1600.jpg



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[Scotlandthebrave]

Hello,

a similar badge at walkthisway.co.uk but with ten screw posts, possibly a pouch badge ?

Royal-Company-of-Archers-ceremonial-sash-belt-buckle.jpg


Best regards

Jean-Marie

[markism]

Hi Gents

Simon, thanks for the comment but it is fancier and larger than their standard waist belt clasp. I have both but not to hand to illustrate them side by side at present, may try to this evening.

Mike, yes, that is the standard clasp, older ones have the lion on a King's Crown, later on the St. Edwards Crown.

Jean-Marie, I did spot this but sadly the sellers didn't give any information, I don't think they had pinned it down beyond being bought in with other QBG items. Image of reveres attached to show more modern fillings but not a pouch badge as it has a lug out the back (to the right of this image).

Regards
Mark

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by markism

it is fancier and larger than their standard waist belt clasp.

Could it be an earlier/original version of their waist belt clasp ?

I found a couple of studio pictures of two Royal Archers :

Featuring an earlier thistle version of the bonnet badge

A quick 'zoom and crop' appears to show both wearing a different clasp , with similar scroll work to both examples in this thread .

One photo is of John Hamilton (Ham) Gillespie who became a member of the Royal Company of Archers in 1875 , he left Scotland to go to America in 1885/6 , so that suggest photo is from that 10 year period. (taken by John Moffat of 125 Princes Street, Edinburgh.)

https://houseoflabhran.com/blog/scot...chers-insignia

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[manchesters]

Told you

[mike_vee]

I wonder when the bonnet badge and belt clasp changed , found a post on another forum that would indicate late 1890's ?

Photo from a Bonham's auction (no idea when) , the description is :

A collection of Royal Company of Archers items comprising:
a gilt bonnet badge on a green and white silk cockade; a Victorian gilt and green enamel St. Andrew bonnet star (retaining original gilding); an oval gilt metal bow case badge of crossed arrow design; a gilt metal thistle forage cap badge; a 19th century white metal bonnet badge; a good pre-1900 sword belt plate with original leather backing; five early 20th century gilt metal tunic buttons; a Victorian wax commission seal contained in its original japanned tin container and five various seal and crest specimens in their turned rosewood containers.

There is also a Wiki quote :

Late in the 19th century when the Queen Victoria opened the Glasgow Exhibition, Her Majesty's Scottish Bodyguard wore their dark green tunics (formerly of the "Black Watch" tartan), with black braid facings and a narrow stripe of crimson velvet in the centre; shoulder wings and gauntleted cuffs similarly trimmed; dark green trousers with black and crimson stripe; a bow case worn as a sash, adorned with two arrows forming a St. Andrew's cross surmounted by a crown; a black leather waist-belt with richly chased gold clasp; a short, gilt-headed Roman sword, like an English bandsman's; Highland bonnet with thistle and one or more eagle feathers.

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[markism]

Sorry for slow response, keeping out the office as it is an oven at present.

Mike – thanks, you could be on to something, I will need to look at older images. The ones you show certainly seem to show the Scottish Crown central although I cannot match the scrolls up exactly.

A few more images may answer that. That Bonham image and description, certainly suggests that the badge is likely an earlier (Victorian) version. It is certainly a quality item; I wasn’t expecting to pick up an older item.

It certainly isn’t their waist belt clasp now, but perhaps a VR period one.

Regards
Mark

[mike_vee]

From an 1886 painting :

[mike_vee]

Good photo of MAJOR GORDON IN THE ROYAL COMPANY OF ARCHERS 1896 - 1937.

https://aagordon.be/____impro/1/onew...127&quality=85

Cropped image from another photo.

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