17 Lancers: little gilding metal grenade?

[GriffMJ]

Hi GGA

The one above is definatley British. I have found it in amongst a load of British sweetheart badges. Its smaller than the Fusilier shoulder title grenades.

This is the cloth version (replica) that AlanO put up and the flames appear to be different to the one above.... but that could be just for ease of manufacture?

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Is this the small grenade worn above the chevrons?

This is an officer's collar badge for the US Army Ordnance Corps of the design that was approved just prior to ww2. This example is likely of ww2 vintage.

I also agree with Gray Green Acorn's assessment with regard to the badges at the start of this thread.

CB

[GriffMJ]

Excellent ....another one to cross off the list

[1stTankie]

Hi Griff

These little grenades were also worn as collar badges by the Grenadier Guards.

Best wishes

Gordon

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is a small gilded grenade with a pin back. Clearly a sweet heart or a badge to be worn in "mufti" (civilian clothes). But is it Fusiliers or Grenadier Guards or ?????

[1stTankie]

Hi g-g-a

The pictorial evidence, in no. 4 of the series of "Regiment", is not too clear but I think it tends towards the badge posted by Griff in post #8.

Gordon

[GriffMJ]

The real thing (cloth):-
Scarce item of WW1 cloth uniform insignia is that issued to troops who qualified to serve with the Trench mortar units. The insignia shows signs of being removed from a uniform at one time. This insignia would have been issued and worn on the 02 pattern tunic.


So........ is this little gilding metal grenade the real thing?

[John L]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

The real thing (cloth):-
Scarce item of WW1 cloth uniform insignia is that issued to troops who qualified to serve with the Trench mortar units. The insignia shows signs of being removed from a uniform at one time. This insignia would have been issued and worn on the 02 pattern tunic.


So........ is this little gilding metal grenade the real thing?

Griff,

Do you know what the difference in the colors stand for?

John

[dragonz18]

Hi,
the grenade above (under the cloth examples) is the Royal Marine Artillery pattern.
Fairly hard to find !
Cheers !
Steve

PS: when you say 'little', what height o/a is this one ??

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by 1stTankie

Hi Griff

These little grenades were also worn as collar badges by the Grenadier Guards.

Best wishes

Gordon

Gordon,
They would have been part of the shoulder titles, Guards Regiments did not wear collar badges on battle dress uniform. The Grenade came before the more common cypher within a Garter strap.

The only "Guards" unit to wear collar badges was the Guards Machine Gun Bn/Regt, who wore the standard MGG crossed MGs.

Andy

[1stTankie]

"Guards Regiments did not wear collar badges"

Hi Andy

Collar badges were worn for a short time by the Grenadier Guards from 1898 on the Scarlet Serge Frock which was used instead of the Tunic overseas.They appeared in the PVCN for the last time in the 1920 edition even though the Scarlet Frock ceased to be worn by 1907. In a note to "Guards Collar Badges" in that year's PVCN on page 100 it stated, ""Used only with the Serge Frock on foreign service"

This collar badge was the plain grenade as worn as a collar badge by the Royal Artillery and certain Fusilier rregiments already mentioned.
This grenade had originally been re-sealed in 1882 in brass but this changed to a GM grenade being sealed on 07/12/1897 as Pattern No.9933A. In the 1907 PVCN a pair is priced at 1d.

Photographs of these collar badges being worn horizontally on the Scarlet Serge Frock appear in "Regiment" Issue 4, pages 45 and 47.

I am indebted to the notes given me by the late Major DDA Linaker for these comments.

At no time have I suggested that collar badges were worn on battledress (as we know it) however if the Scarlet Serge Tunic worn overseas in 1898 in the Sudan Campaign was not "battledress" what was it?


Best wishes


Gordon

[2747andy]

Gordon,
I stated battle dress as collars were and still are worn on tunic order, although embroidered.. The small Fusiliers grenades were worn above GG pre 1920 then changing to the puggaree style Garter strap.

Best regards

Andy

p.s. what do you think of this? Appears the makers could not make up their mind on whether to fit lugs or a slider to this 1923 pattern badge?

[1stTankie]

"Guards Regiments did not wear collar badges on battle dress uniform"


Hi Andy

The point of my post was to indicate that the Grenadier Guards did wear the small brass or GM grenades collar badges on their "battledress" in 1898.

The Scarlet Serge Tunic of that period was their battledress.

As to to the RTC badge I'm afraid I have no idea what the Master Badge Artisan (Dave's great grandfather!) was up to when he put the slider on this one. It could be that Amdt No 1 appeared on his desk just after he had put lugs on!

Best wishes

Gordon

[2747andy]

Gordon,
the RTR badge is not a repair, it was made that way?

I get your point about tunic, I should have stated Khaki BD!

Andy

[grey_green_acorn]

Here are some more examples of "small grenades" with a (possible) Trench Mortar connection.
Blue embroidered - original trench mortar badge
Red and khaki - original infantry bomber badge
Small brass grenade - Fusilier/RE/RA grenade collar dog/shoulder title - possibly worn as trench mortar badge?
Next to it a 9 flame RE grenade with "Ubique" scroll removed - possibly worn as trench mortar badge?
Finally a brass multi flamed grenade (2 lugs) - but what is it?