17 Lancers: little gilding metal grenade?

[GriffMJ]

One for the Boffs

I am looking at a 17th Lancers Sgt (WW1) with a small gilding-metal grenade above his motto & chevrons?

Reading on in the excellent new book I have it appears that the little grenade was a "Trench Bomber, morterman or Pioneer".

My question is ..... how rare are these little grenades? I picked two up the other day (not knowing what I was looking at).... and put them down again when I was buying a couple of other badges...... one had a clip on the rear.... the other had N/S (little) loops?

[1stTankie]

Hi Griff

Does this little grenade look like those worn by Fusilier regiments above their shoulder titles?

Gordon

[GriffMJ]

Gordon

I really have no idea.....all I can say is that they were very small. If they are still there on the market stall I will buy them.... they do look like they are the right size.

[Alan O]

Griff,

Trench mortar badges are rare where as Fusiler badges and RA collars are very common. I would get a photo of each and compare them.

[GriffMJ]

Hi Alan

I know what RA collars look like..... and the grenades that I saw were much smaller.... probably around 2-2.5cm in length from memory. I am in Loughborough today so I will see if the stall is there.

I put them down because I had never seen them before..... and because one had an old earing clip in the back (clip on type)... obvioulsy a modification for some reason. If they are still there I will buy them......

[Alan O]

This is a replica mortar badge. They are also found in red cloth.

This link shows a brass shoudler title grenade.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...26tbs%3Disch:1

[GriffMJ]

Hi Alan

What I have found is the little "gilding-metal" grenades....as seen in :-

Cavalry Warrant Officers' and non-commissioned officers Arm Badges by D Linaker & G Dine
(Gilding-metal) Page 20; Fig: 11.13 - 17L and (cloth) Page 61; Fig: 13.5 - 4DG

[GriffMJ]

I managed to buy the little grenades today .....

What do you think? Are they Collars/Caps or the little Arm badges? Are they RWF shoulder grenades?

Both have slightly different flames.... both have 7 points but different necks. The brooche'd version has still got the loop stumps but with the pin fixing put on top of the stumps.

[davec2]

Hi Griff,

I believe more than one of the Fusilier Regiments had small grenades for collar badges, flame patterns varied with the manufacturer but I don't know if the designs changed with the Regiments, if you follow what I mean !!

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

I think they are RWF Shoulder Grenades that were worn just above the brass RWF title.

Thats one Inf regiment I will collect...... as a small boy I was with my father, in the stable, when he performed a small Op on their mascot Goat.... think it was at the Cardiff or Brecon tattoo.

[Jim Maclean]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I think they are RWF Shoulder Grenades that were worn just above the brass RWF title.

Thats one Inf regiment I will collect...... as a small boy I was with my father, in the stable, when he performed a small Op on their mascot Goat.... think it was at the Cardiff or Brecon tattoo.

I think they're appropriate for most if not all fusilier shoulder titles. I remember back in the 60s (swing that lantern please) you couldn't get away from them. My Grandfather, a retired sailor, even gave me a pair though they've no RN connection.

Did the "operation" result in a matching pair?

[grey_green_acorn]

As well as being worn by the Royal Artillery as collar badges and by Trench Bombers, all nine Fusilier Regiments wore the separate brass grenade above the shoulder title letters from the early 1900s when metal shoulder titles were introduced for Service Dress.
Westlake (number in brackets) lists and illustrates the following with apparently identical pattern grenades:
Northumberland Fusiliers NF (759), Royal Fusiliers RF (790), Lancashire Fusiliers LF (930), Royal Scots Fusiliers RSF (945), Royal Welch Fusliliers RWF (965), Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers INNIS FUS etc (1008 - 1011), Irish Fusiliers IF (1397), Munster Fusiliers MF and RMF (1423 - 1424), Dublin Fusiliers DF and RDF (1427 - 1428).

Titles tended to change to one piece designs before or after WW1 but there must have been many thousands of grenades made!

[Lancer 17]

Hi Griff

I suggest that the collar badges are for The Lancashire Fusiliers and also the Royal Welsh & Munster Fusiliers.

See British Army Collar Badges 1881 to the present by Colin Churchill & Ray Westlake No 181 on page 33.

Regards

Phil.

[GriffMJ]

Is this the small grenade worn above the chevrons?

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

One for the Boffs

I am looking at a 17th Lancers Sgt (WW1) with a small gilding-metal grenade above his motto & chevrons?

Reading on in the excellent new book I have it appears that the little grenade was a "Trench Bomber, morterman or Pioneer".

[grey_green_acorn]

That grenade seems to have rather fewer flames than the British Fusilier/Royal Artillery grenades and looks more French or Belgian?
However that does not rule out it being worn!