British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Canadian Military Insignia > Airborne and Special Forces

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29-03-08, 10:21 PM
boots and saddles's Avatar
boots and saddles boots and saddles is offline
Member 2008-2010 Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Durham(Varney) ont. Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default Fssf

Can someone tell me if the US part of this force wore the crossed arrows only on a disc, I have the crossed arrows made by myers of new York (I believe) not struck like the Canadian one, I don't know when this one was made or anything about it or if it is a copy, I got it from a Dr. in the US (I believe it was in Pennsylvania) about 30 years ago. Ray
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-03-08, 10:26 PM
Malcolm Davey's Avatar
Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,608
Default

Hi Ray
Have you mistakenly placed this in the British General topic instead of the Canadian, what fssf is i do not understand.

Cheers
Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/



Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-03-08, 10:45 PM
DavidS's Avatar
DavidS DavidS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary AB Canada
Posts: 997
Default re US collars

My understanding from a guy at the Calgary Military Historical Society specializing in FSSF is this: Canadian 'other ranks' wore the "Canada" disk on one collar and the crossed arrow disk on the other, but no hat badge. Some Cdn. officers wore the lugged version crossed arrows sim. to the US FSSF pinback crossed arrows collar badge as a cap badge (I know the description is obtuse since the disk and the crossed arrows themselves are actually both collar badges).

The US ranks, officers and ORs, wore the "US" disk on one side and the crossed arrow disk on the other, as well as the pinback FSSF crossed arrows as a cap badge. This is would be the US-made Meyer type pinback badge.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-03-08, 11:35 PM
GregN's Avatar
GregN GregN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 926
Default

HI Malc, fssf is First Special Service Force. A Canadian/US unit.

Greg
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-03-08, 11:40 PM
Malcolm Davey's Avatar
Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,608
Default

Thanks greg
for the explanation.
Cheers
Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/



Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-03-08, 01:08 AM
bgpipes's Avatar
bgpipes bgpipes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana,USA
Posts: 171
Default bgpipes

Hi David S, In the US Army, only enlisted ranks (o r,s) wear discs w/symbols, officers wear symbols cut out (no disc) The photographs I have seen of FSSF forcemen shows officers wearing crossed arrows (no discs) as lapel pins,and cap badge, also enlisted ranks wearing crossed arrows w/discs on one collar or lapel,and nationality "US or CANADA" w/discs on the other collar or lapel.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-03-08, 04:32 PM
boots and saddles's Avatar
boots and saddles boots and saddles is offline
Member 2008-2010 Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Durham(Varney) ont. Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default Fssf

Thank you all for that info. Mine is a Meyers crossed arrows no disc with two pins & slide-on caps like you would see on a Legion pin. I just learned that they are called clutch pins. Any comments on that one. Ray

Last edited by boots and saddles; 30-03-08 at 08:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30-03-08, 05:49 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Can you get an image of the arrows Ray?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-03-08, 08:07 PM
boots and saddles's Avatar
boots and saddles boots and saddles is offline
Member 2008-2010 Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Durham(Varney) ont. Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default FssF

The best I could do Bill.I couldn't scan the reverse so had to take a photo of it. Maybe you could tell me if it's any good. Ray
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSSF.jpg (7.3 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg flowers 010.jpg (22.0 KB, 35 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-03-08, 08:12 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default Nice Arrows....

Thanks Ray. The image is a bit small to read the maker mark, but it does show the clutch pins very well. Is the maker Meyer? I am still learning about these, maybe Bill Ellis or someone more expert can tell us about these badges.

Last edited by Bill A; 30-03-08 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30-03-08, 08:53 PM
boots and saddles's Avatar
boots and saddles boots and saddles is offline
Member 2008-2010 Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Durham(Varney) ont. Canada
Posts: 1,122
Default FssF

Yes Bill the maker is Meyers of New York & I think there are two initals before Meyer & looks like the first one is N
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 31-03-08, 12:19 AM
Doug N's Avatar
Doug N Doug N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oregon USA
Posts: 247
Default Meyer marked arrows

Arrow badges marked NS MEYER INC NEW YORK are reportedly a briefly worn mid sixties US Special Forces collar. They are very similar to OR's FSSF arrows. A comparison with a period piece reveals that they are from a distinct & different die.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 31-03-08, 12:51 AM
DavidS's Avatar
DavidS DavidS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary AB Canada
Posts: 997
Default re Meyers collars

Mazeas (S24b) illustrates the US collar (I think), rather than the stubbier Canadian version, whereas Tripp's book shows the Canadian, lugged version with the stubby fletching. WW2 pattern US FSSF officer's collars measure approx. 39 mm x 22 mm. Mine have clutches with 2 patent numbers, both which date to Jan 12, 1943. These collars have fletching with 7 distinct feathers, with a small mid-rib on each. There are Meyer marked badges of the same dimension and era.

60s era badges should be distinctly different, esp. the dimensions.

I was told by KM Col (and I'm sure as soon as I repeat this I'll get corrected), that badges made for issue were usually not maker marked, whereas the badges made for sale for private purchase (PX or whatever) were. For an example of carded WW2 Meyer badges, see eBay item #200211081794.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 31-03-08, 04:26 PM
servicepub's Avatar
servicepub servicepub is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 879
Default

Ken Joyce, who wrote "Into the Maelstrom" the definitive book which examined the uniforms and insignia on the 1st Cdn Para Bn is working on "Crimson Spearhead" which will do the same for the FSSF. I will be publishing this some time next year.

__________________
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-04-08, 01:35 PM
bgpipes's Avatar
bgpipes bgpipes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Indiana,USA
Posts: 171
Default Aha! clutch pin attachments

The clutch pin attachment would more than likely have been worn by a US troop in FSSF, the Canadian troops wore lugged specimens. Both are correct depending on what side of the national border he haled from.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.