Denbighshire Hussars

[Paddy]

Andy

Just an observation, your 4th picture above of the guy in uniform, is there any reason why the coronets have been touched up/photoshopped on the cap and collar badges?

Paddy

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Paddy

Andy

Just an observation, your 4th picture above of the guy in uniform, is there any reason why the coronets have been touched up/photoshopped on the cap and collar badges?

Paddy

Yes mate, just to show that it could have as easily been all Wm before Griff made it Bim earlier in the thread!

Andy

[Paddy]

roger that

[GriffMJ]

Untouched...

Colour photo (John Greenwood collection) :-
Denbighshire Hussars Yeomanry
Bi-metal badge (and others) worn by Capt. J B Miller DHY in WW1.

[41st]

Gryff,
I've checked my photos and don't have any to the Denbighshire. I think the photo you are referring to is the one I picked up to the Welsh Horse showing the sergeant with the arm badge above his chevrons.
Sorry about the duff call on the ribbon colour, should've twigged about the yeomanry.
Hwyl,
Kevin

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by 41st

Gryff,
I've checked my photos and don't have any to the Denbighshire. I think the photo you are referring to is the one I picked up to the Welsh Horse showing the sergeant with the arm badge above his chevrons.
Sorry about the duff call on the ribbon colour, should've twigged about the yeomanry.
Hwyl,
Kevin

Thanks Kevin

Yes it was the WH thinking about it.... sorry for putting you out

The medal was in the memory banks ..... and I think Jonathan has probably hit the nail on the head with the "name" of the Sergeant in the photo.

Hwyl

[GriffMJ]

Denbighshire Hussars IY
After the old hussar full dress was phased out in 1901-2, it was not until 1903 that a new parade dress was introduced. This was a scarlet embellished lancer style khaki kit. The Other Ranks Scarlet Plastron was detachable and the Officers were distinguished by gold patted shoulder chords and a gold and crimson girdle. Only Officers had khaki overalls with broad scarlet stripes while Other ranks wore khaki breeches with Stohwasser leggings or khaki puttees. Only Other Ranks wore yellow cap lines looped onto the right breast. The Officers accouterments comprised of brown leather wrist gloves and the old gold laced belts with a central scarlet stripe.

When service dress was first adopted in 1901 the headdress was the slouch hat without the plume or alternatively for the Other Ranks, a khaki field service cap. The kit was worn with a plain khaki serge frock with a stand and fall collar and four pouch pockets. The Officers version had shoulder chains on scarlet pads with gilt rank badges and DHIY shoulder titles [1]. Plain khaki breeches and puttees were worn by all ranks but Officers quickly adopted the Stohwasser leggings, which seem to have been privately purchased by the men who will appear in a mixture of puttees and leggings in 1908. By 1903 a scarlet embellished service dress had been introduced and officers had adopted a khaki peaked cap. In 1906 other ranks were issued with plain khaki serge frocks with a stand and fall collar and a khaki peaked cap replaced the slouch hat. The scarlet welts were also removed from the officers breeches but they were still evident on the other ranks' breeches as late as 1910.

From November 1907 the embellished khaki was replaced by a plain blue serge frock with shoulder chains which was worn with brown leather wrist gloves, white cap lines and blue overalls with double scarlet stripes. The headdress was the scarlet peaked forage cap for the Officers while the Other ranks received a blue peaked cap with a double scarlet band showing a central blue line between. Brown leather wrist gloves were worn and the Officers now adopted Sam Browne belts with swords in leather scabbards.

1. See the War Office pattern card dated 1902 (lower right gilt shoulder title) in Bryn Owens Book

* So ..... the Other Ranks khaki "peaked" Forage cap comes in 1906 just before their new Dress Cap as described above, therefore the Bronze cap badge (in khaki Cap only) from this date, 1906. The service dress remains "blue" until the next change in uniform around 1912/13 into khaki (Later than some other Yeomanry Regiments).

[Chrisr]

Griff,

This is mine, I wasn't sure if it was Denbighshire Hussars or 15th London, but the badge is definitely bronze.

Cheers
Chris

[Chrisr]

Sorry, right way up

[GriffMJ]

Chris

Love it..... here it is against Alans (I note yours has a crimp?). My hunch is that this type is a later issue, there is an Officers (with Scroll) with these PoWs as well. Notice how Alans has had some cleaning to it..... how the brass is starting to show through. I bet some "old Sweats" badges were polished back to "almost" brass (see photo below).

* Interestingly, I do have a "restrike/copy" of this type of PoWs, thin yellow metal that had some sort of finish on it.... and a flimsy 1mm thick slider. Its very pitted, like it had been sitting in water for years and then cleaned?

Photo:-
Trooper [509] Edward Davies (Pictured as DHY)
Born in Froncysyllte (Wrexham) and served, also, as a Sergeant 345092 with the 24th (Denbighshire Yeomanry) Battalion of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Died of wounds 28th Dec 1917 in Egypt; Jerusalem War Cemetery, Row C. Grave 15. Also named on the plaque in Welsh from the Chapel. Now part of the Boer War Memorial.

* Brass "looking" PoWs Cap Badge. Probably started off as a "bronzed" brass badge and through cleaning has become near to brass again..... having the surface layer of chemical bronze rubbed off. The scrolls of the early pattern issue would have been horizontal (later issued PoWs are made with the scrolls more upward - Photos of 2nd/1st DHY men with this type) . Buttons would be brass and would have the regimental pattern PoWs on them. Remember that they served in Egypt and the middle east and "some" of their badges would have had a sand blasting as well

[GriffMJ]

This is what I have for the uniform in the Other Ranks from 1901 up to 1917...... 1906 being the introduction of the "bronze" cap badge.

* Plastron was detachable.... and worn with hackle, bandolier or yellow cap lines in dress. In undress, no hackle in the slouch hat and the FFScap could be worn instead of the Slouch hat.
** The FFScap, according to Simpkin's painting (DHIY 1904) has a red welt on the top line of the flap as well as a red crown (R J Smith only has the red crown?)
*** T/Y/DENBIGH is found in Wm & Brass, so the Wm is probably for Blues.
**** Early bronze cap badge looped E/W, chemically bronzed (Florentine Brown) brass and worn in the "middle" of the central band. Later issues with slider.
***** The 1907 Blues cap has the bi-metal PoWs "raised" on the central band (most likely reason for this is the addition of the "DENBIGHSHIRE HUSSARS" scroll on the Officers cap badge...... so All Ranks keep the badge in the new position on the dress caps).
****** Post 1912: In khaki, "Possible" NCO Arm badge for "Troop" NCOs ranked Sgt/Cpl in the form of either a Wm. or Worsted Wool PoWs, cap badge sized and placed above the chevrons.
******* In full blues, overalls to boots and spurs.

[GriffMJ]

Officer Uniform
DHIY 1901 up to 1917

* First Blues uniform, no collar badges, (as seen in 1903 at Kerry Camp), overalls to boxed spur boots.
** The sequence is missing a khaki uniform from 1907-12.
*** Small OSD PoWs Collars, post 1912 on SD.

[GriffMJ]

Love to know if anyone has got this "identical" PoWs in bi-metal with a slider?

[signalman]

Thanks for that Griff and from your large black and white scan ( original photograph ) of the badge i can see bi-metal very clearly. Regards. Phil.

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Phil, that photo is an important piece.... treasure it The clarity of the scan was so crisp.