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  #1  
Old 29-04-19, 10:28 AM
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Milmed Milmed is offline
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Default Anglo Boer War support services

Hi,
I am in the planning phase of framing a set of badges as worn by the rank and file of the Imperial support services during the Anglo Boer War.

I will be displaying a forage cap badge, pair of collar badges and a shoulder title, all on corps colours in the following order of precedence.

Royal Engineers
Army Service Corps
Royal Army Medical Corps
Army Ordnance Corps
Army Pay Corps

Questions:
1. Do I have the order of precedence correct for 1899-1902 period
2. Do I have the corps colours correct for this period
3. Should I show the colours horizontally (top image) or vertically (bottom image)
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File Type: jpg services frame.jpg (34.5 KB, 39 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-05-19, 02:38 PM
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Milmed Milmed is offline
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Here are the badges I will be framing.

Are the collars for the APC correct or should I be using the QVC style as seen on the forage cap badge?

Any comments appreciated...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RE.jpg (111.7 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg ASC.jpg (103.1 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg RAMC.jpg (101.7 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg AOC.jpg (117.3 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg APC.jpg (117.5 KB, 48 views)
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  #3  
Old 30-07-19, 01:05 PM
mojob123 mojob123 is offline
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Hi Milmed. Sorry no one else has replied to your query before now - I've only just seen it myself. Re your Ordnance Corps set, I'm pretty sure the collars you have came into use in 1907 when the large cap badge was replaced by the smaller one. The collars you should have are the same as the later cap badge with 'Army Ordnance Corps' scroll, but lugged and left and right facing. If that's incorrect, hopefully someone with more knowledge will comment. I'm sure I read that the right facing ones are extremely rare ('hen's teeth' I think was the phrase used) but I can't find the thread on here - maybe I read it somewhere else. The only right facing one I have is the cobbled together one on the left - probably for a display, and probably cobbled together for that very reason. Best regards, Mike.
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File Type: jpg IMG_8358.jpg (121.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8359.jpg (122.5 KB, 24 views)
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  #4  
Old 30-07-19, 03:10 PM
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Milmed Milmed is offline
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I did see mention of the original facing collars having the scroll, but as you say, hens teeth. I also saw mention somewhere that the collars without scroll were adopted earlier and I have seen evidence of this in photographs taken at the turn of the century. So, because there is a bit of confusion as to the actual collars worn c. Boer War, I will display what I have.

Regards
Steven
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  #5  
Old 30-07-19, 03:16 PM
mojob123 mojob123 is offline
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Hi Steven. Glad you've sorted that out. Would be interested to see any links to turn of the century photos. I'm sorting through my AOC badges with the expectation of displaying some at some time and, like you, would like to get them right. Best regards, Mike
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  #6  
Old 30-07-19, 07:57 PM
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Hiya Steven,

Your order of precedence is correct, R.E. 1st & so on.

I have a very rare image for you to look at which shows an ASC soldier in Aldershot, taken in 1899 - 1900, prior to being moved out to South Africa.

I will let the image speak for us all, but i believe this to be a navy blue square patch, with no white stripe which is worn behind the QVC ASC badge, with collar badges shown in great detail.

Regards

Ken (The Fatboy)

Vic ASC FS Helmet.jpg
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  #7  
Old 31-07-19, 03:54 AM
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Hi Ken,
Nice picture and you are correct, it does look like a solid color helmet flash.

Similarly i have seen a picture of an RAMC private in typical Boer War khaki with a solid (maroon) helmet flash.

I think the use of the color in my display is more of a representation of the corps colors as apposed to the actual color helmet flash worn during Boer War period.

I have already mounted the badges in a frame and will post some pictures soon.

Regards
Steven
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  #8  
Old 31-07-19, 12:48 PM
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Hiya Steve,

Prior to the ASC the Military Train worn a single white stripe (1") along the side of the leg on theouter edge.
It was only after the formation of the ASC that a double white stripe was introduced.

I shall have a closer look and see if i can find info on the Corps colours during this time period.

My belief is that it was "blue over yellow on a diagonal flash.

I will get back to you soon mate.

Ken
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  #9  
Old 31-07-19, 07:09 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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What a super photograph and certainly a stark contrast to the average appearance by the middle of 1901, it became a war of attrition for a considerable period until well into the new year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy Ken View Post
Hiya Steven,

Your order of precedence is correct, R.E. 1st & so on.

I have a very rare image for you to look at which shows an ASC soldier in Aldershot, taken in 1899 - 1900, prior to being moved out to South Africa.

I will let the image speak for us all, but i believe this to be a navy blue square patch, with no white stripe which is worn behind the QVC ASC badge, with collar badges shown in great detail.

Regards

Ken (The Fatboy)

Attachment 210280
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  #10  
Old 18-08-19, 09:22 AM
Conductor Conductor is offline
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Default AOC Shoulder Titles

I was under the impression that when the AOC were in South Africa they wore the large cap badge (50mm x 40mm) with collar badges identical but smaller, with loops E&W and some loops N&S. They also wore Shoulder titles wit a bar across the top of the AOC. I also have a AOC slip on shoulder in cloth (White on Khaki) and a photo of an AOC Sgt with what looks like AOC in white on red sewn onto the sleeve where it meets the shoulder.
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File Type: jpg AOC Badges 1896 - 1907.jpg (27.3 KB, 28 views)
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  #11  
Old 23-08-19, 10:27 AM
mojob123 mojob123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conductor View Post
I was under the impression that when the AOC were in South Africa they wore the large cap badge (50mm x 40mm) with collar badges identical but smaller, with loops E&W and some loops N&S. They also wore Shoulder titles wit a bar across the top of the AOC. I also have a AOC slip on shoulder in cloth (White on Khaki) and a photo of an AOC Sgt with what looks like AOC in white on red sewn onto the sleeve where it meets the shoulder.
Hi Conductor. I notice both your photographed collars are left facing and this was something I was wondering about. Were these early collars actually NOT faced? That would certainly explain why the right facing ones are so incredibly scarce (non existent?). Does anyone have a right facing one they can show? Best regards, Mike
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  #12  
Old 24-08-19, 03:34 PM
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Hen's teeth and rocking horse dropping spring to mind with Right Facing Collars. The reason I have two, both left facing, is because they are different material. I'm still not sure of the actual dates they would have been worn, some time between 1896 and 1907. I've not seen any documentary evidence, when inward facing cannons were introduced. Maybe when the collars ceased to have a scroll? I have a similar problem with the cap badges. I know that the smaller size came into existence about 1907 but when the slider changed in length has me confused. Some have said it was with the introduction of the Brodrick (short slider) and the introduction of peak cap. (long slider)
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