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  #1  
Old 21-10-14, 12:40 PM
Major Dundee
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Default Scots Guards NCO Opinions Please

Hello Gentlemen

Could anybody try and give me a date of this Scots Guards NCO Type Cap Badge Please???????

I bought it as a WW1 issue because of the hole in the back, it is made of 2pieces and has been cleaned as it was dark brown and looked like an all brass issue, the lugs are very long (not the short type you often see)

All opinions very welcome indeed.

Thanks for looking

Paul.

Last edited by Major Dundee; 30-11-14 at 05:58 PM.
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  #2  
Old 21-10-14, 02:32 PM
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Paul,

Worn by Sgt's Full & Colour if I remember rightly, as to being a good one I'm not sure, are the feet on the lugs the type to avoid ? others in the know can confirm, think it my be one to avoid ?


Gerard
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  #3  
Old 21-10-14, 02:54 PM
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The badge looks OK but I would suggest that it was not as old as WW1. the design remained the same but the lugs do look modern.
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  #4  
Old 21-10-14, 03:26 PM
Major Dundee
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Thanks Gerard and Alan

On the ball again as usual.

There is one in the Gallery section that looks the same that Grenadier Guardsman has posted.

As long as it has been confirmed its original that's good enough for me. (Thanks to Alan)

My very best wishes to you both
Paul
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  #5  
Old 21-10-14, 06:21 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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I would not be too much haste to pop the champagne corks, the Scots Guards Cap Star, despite looking symmetrical, in most cases is taller than it is wide!

I too have an example like the one at the start of the thread, however as it is constructed incorrectly (i.e the star is sideways to the central device), it is probably very unlikely that any Eagle Eyed inspecting Warrant Officer or Officer would allow the wearer to continue to sport such a badge?

These Bi-metal badges have also been "Private Purchase" since the introduction of anodised aluminium, i.e. the badge "issued" to a full sergeant would be staybright, he would be expected to purchase a metal Cap Star! I am not saying these where not, have never been or are not genuine items, however I doubt the wearing of such an incorrectly badge would go unnoticed for long and would incur some serious leg pulling, if not a lot of rounds of drink? I'd look to get one with the Star set right!

Andy
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  #6  
Old 21-10-14, 06:26 PM
Neil M.ex14/20H.MAN A.C.F Neil M.ex14/20H.MAN A.C.F is offline
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Hi Paul
I have one exactly the same in my collection.As some of the other fellas have said it is not WW1. It is a genuine present day issue or p/p badge.
Regards Neil
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  #7  
Old 21-10-14, 07:01 PM
Major Dundee
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Thanks very much Andy

Yes I do notice the mistake now, it looks like the thistle has been braised on the wrong way hence the lugs being put on the wrong side so maybe private purchase

You can see there not cheaply made so a genuine mistake by the suppliers or made this way for a purpose? ?????

Thanks Neil

I have no dout the badge is good because of the strenght of it you cannot bend it and its not of rubbish quality so they maybe late issues if not as you state P/P.

Best wishes
Paul
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  #8  
Old 21-10-14, 07:58 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Paul,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but the fact that a badge, slider or lugs must be genuine because they don't bend easily is not a rule I would ridgly apply!

I'm trying to think of a thechnical term for this philosophy, which many adhere too, but the only one I can come up with is;

"Total Boathooks"

There is far, far more to establishing the authenticity of a badge than whether or not it is "Bendy"

You should concentrate more on, quality of strike, style of font, attention to detail, patina, shape of fittings, makers markings and overall quality!

I have said this in the past and repeating it again, DON'T BEND BADGES OR THEIR FITTINGS" It means very little and could have disasterous or costly results! If I were offering a badge for sale and a prospectiive buyer attempted to "Bend It", I would certainly not stand by and watch them carry out such a ludicrous "acid test"! Tyre kicking for badge collectors!

Andy

Last edited by 2747andy; 22-10-14 at 05:44 AM.
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  #9  
Old 21-10-14, 09:12 PM
Neil M.ex14/20H.MAN A.C.F Neil M.ex14/20H.MAN A.C.F is offline
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Hi Paul
There's a lot of truth in what Andy says.About seven or eight years ago I purchased what I thought was a genuine 25th London Cyclists badge.You could not bend it to save your life.But I soon realised not long after that it was a dud.Which I managed to replace with a nice genuine one about six months later.
Neil
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  #10  
Old 21-10-14, 09:52 PM
Major Dundee
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Thanks Andy

No offence taken at all I value your opinion very highly it is the only way I can learn.
I am always happy that someone with your knowledge and experience will take the time to view your opinion on any of my badges.
I am not familiar with the terms collector's use to describe badges and the only way i can do this is to ask stupid questions and describe them how I see and feel them by my eye.

Does this badge in anyway look like a good strike and all the other aspects you mention, apart from it being assembled incorrectly.

I am a bit lost now with various opinions but yours seems to be the more feasible as to the construction of the badge private purchase ??? and maybe one from me is a supplier mistake ???? I guess for the time being we will nwver know.

Thanks for your time in replying very much appreciated indeed.

My very best wishes

Paul.
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  #11  
Old 22-10-14, 03:36 PM
Major Dundee
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Can any of the Guards collectors shine any light on this matter please ???

Thanks
Paul
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  #12  
Old 22-10-14, 08:28 PM
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To me Paul i think it is the feet of the lugs. If you have a look on most badges you can not see the feet. They are if i'm correct in saying brazed on far better.
Andy
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  #13  
Old 22-10-14, 10:23 PM
Major Dundee
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Hi Andy

Thanks for your reply BUT sorry I don't get what you mean, I am trying to find out if the badge is a Private Purchase one or a fake or if the badge is a mistake by the manufacturer.
If the lugs are mounted this way does it mean modern or fake.
Can you help me on this ????

Thanks for your time
Best wishes
Paul
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  #14  
Old 23-10-14, 02:52 PM
Major Dundee
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Just seen this by Endici it is the same badge I have posted.
He is down as an Experienced Seller and is advertised on this forum, he describes the badge as follows.

This is an original NCO's Cap Badge of the Scots Guards. It measures 42mm high by 44mm wide. It is made from bi-metal and is in good condition with holding lugs undamaged and intact.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3512033100...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It also measures the same as mine.

So this after all could be an original badge put together the wrong way around.

Thank you to all who have give there opinions on this matter.

Best Wishes
Paul.
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