South Wales Borderers Pagri Badge

[41st]

Here's one I've finally been able to move from the unknown items box into it's correct family grouping.

It turns out that it's a South Wales Borderers' pagri badge in white metal as worn on the foreign service helmet.

The initial spot came from a friend of mine who collects Monmouth Regiment items (thanks Dave) and who noted a similar example in a photograph of an old collection put together by the late Captain Philippe Durand which in turn came out of papers held by the late Bryn Owen.

The Durand collection was aquired by Glasgow City Council in 1975.

It would appear he was certainly active in the 1930's when his "A Short History Of The Glasgow Volunteers 1859-1908" was published in 1933.

Sadly, no dating information is given on the papers I have. Further research will have to wait until I next get a chance to go to Glasgow.

Unless of course anyone else knows anything more.

Cofion gorau,

41st

[Sonofacqms]

This is a great piece of information, I have a Suffolk Regt badge which is of similar construction with a pin instead of loops as this badge has. I have never been able to put this badge in any category, although I have suspected it could be a pagri.

[Bantam]

Sut mae 41st,
Great to see you back contributing with such great detective work.Another piece of the jigsaw puzzle filled in.
Da iawn,
Bantam

[KLR]

zut alors, vive Capt Durand !!
Since the SWB was clearly not part of the Glasgow Volunteers might we dare to hope that his papers contained badge information for other British regiments .............

[Peter Brydon]

Probably mainly of interest to KLR but in correspondence I had with Laurence Archer in 1976 regarding Liverpool Irish collars, Laurence said that Durand " had one in his fairly large collection of Kings Liverpool and described it simply as 8th Bn,officers service dress,black "

In another letter Laurence said " I acquired almost all of Durands notes,manuscripts,photos etc "

P.B.

[41st]

Bantam,
Da iawn diolch a ti?

KLR,
Galsgow City Council Cultural & Leisure Services, Museums Collecting Policy October 2005 Appendix 1, refers.

The paper refers to his collection as substantial, so hope may spring eternal.

Are you going to use a little museum muscle to have a look at the contents of the collection?

Sorry to hear about David Linnaker.

Cofion gorau,

[KLR]

A second big question:
What happened to Archer's material ?

Back to the first; I'll see what I can do !

[Luke H]

Reviving this old thread.

If Capt. Durand’s collection is still held by City of Glasgow Council that would be quite something.

In my correspondence with Keith Hook he referred to Capt. Durand as the Hugh King of the 1930s and 1940s. Later in 1950s he offered a photographic subscription for collectors showcasing sections of his collection, this was his Artists board is below.

Could be quite a gold mine if anyone ever went and was able to have a look.

[cbuehler]

Would certainly be interested to know if any photographic evidence shows if the initial subject SWB Pagri badge was actually ever worn.
With regard to the Artists collection, I will turn a blind eye to that unfortunate design.

CB

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Reviving this old thread.

If Capt. Durand’s collection is still held by City of Glasgow Council that would be quite something.

In my correspondence with Keith Hook he referred to Capt. Durand as the Hugh King of the 1930s and 1940s. Later in 1950s he offered a photographic subscription for collectors showcasing sections of his collection, this was his Artists board is below.

Could be quite a gold mine if anyone ever went and was able to have a look.

Hi, information which I had back from the museum regarding the Durand collection about 11 years ago.
Cheers,
Dave

[Tinto]

Here is a link to a similar wreathed badge.
Possibly a mess waiter's badge.
John

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ght=Tinto+mess

Originally Posted by 41st

Here's one I've finally been able to move from the unknown items box into it's correct family grouping.

It turns out that it's a South Wales Borderers' pagri badge in white metal as worn on the foreign service helmet.

The initial spot came from a friend of mine who collects Monmouth Regiment items (thanks Dave) and who noted a similar example in a photograph of an old collection put together by the late Captain Philippe Durand which in turn came out of papers held by the late Bryn Owen.

The Durand collection was aquired by Glasgow City Council in 1975.

It would appear he was certainly active in the 1930's when his "A Short History Of The Glasgow Volunteers 1859-1908" was published in 1933.

Sadly, no dating information is given on the papers I have. Further research will have to wait until I next get a chance to go to Glasgow.

Unless of course anyone else knows anything more.

Cofion gorau,

41st

[denis pannett]

Originally Posted by 41st

Here's one I've finally been able to move from the unknown items box into it's correct family grouping.

It turns out that it's a South Wales Borderers' pagri badge in white metal as worn on the foreign service helmet.

The initial spot came from a friend of mine who collects Monmouth Regiment items (thanks Dave) and who noted a similar example in a photograph of an old collection put together by the late Captain Philippe Durand which in turn came out of papers held by the late Bryn Owen.

The Durand collection was aquired by Glasgow City Council in 1975.

It would appear he was certainly active in the 1930's when his "A Short History Of The Glasgow Volunteers 1859-1908" was published in 1933.

Sadly, no dating information is given on the papers I have. Further research will have to wait until I next get a chance to go to Glasgow.

Unless of course anyone else knows anything more.

Cofion gorau,

41st

I have this previously unidentified badge in my collection and now wonder if this is a Yorkshire Regt pagri badge? All info welcomed. Many thanks. Denis

[cbuehler]

That is a very nice badge, but I don't know what it is for. It is the common practice to label badges with brooch fittings as "Pagri" if not "sweetheart", but I do not subscribe to that at all.
Many badges were made in the late 19th C. that were intended for the Pagri but never worn, or have no photo evidence of such use. Others may have actually been worn, but for very short times indeed.
Some badges were converted to brooch fittings by the individual as they may have preferred it to lugs or sliders.
Then there are mess waiters badges, in many cases not official or even recorded and probably paid for by the officer's mess.

CB

[Alan O]

There was a Yorks pagri but it was adifferent design. There is one in my FSH album with photos of it in use.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=121385

[denis pannett]

Originally Posted by Alan O

There was a Yorks pagri but it was adifferent design. There is one in my FSH album with photos of it in use.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=121385

Many thanks Alan for the photo of your Yorks Pagri which would seem to confirm that mine is something else though I would love to know what - perhaps mess waiter as already suggested?
Regards Denis