QUEENS OWN BUFFS

[grey_green_acorn]

In my 57 plus years as a collector I have not seen an anodised Queen’s Own Buffs cap badge but the collar badges do turn up.

Tim

[ukbrits]

Hi Gents,
I don't have any proof to hand at the moment but the Queen's own Buffs never had an officially made metal cap badge.
Any metal Queen's own Buffs badges are either fake or privately purchased.

The T.A Bns did have a Queen's own Buffs beret badge but it was privately purchased and was a cloth badge. Following in keeping up with the traditions of the old Regiment.

Queen's own Buffs a/a collar badges were worn with the Home Counties a/a badge and are genuine.

Regards
Colin

[leigh kitchen]

Which of the Queen's Own Buffs antecedent units wore a cloth beret badge please?

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

In my 57 plus years as a collector I have not seen an anodised Queen’s Own Buffs cap badge but the collar badges do turn up.

Tim

In the post war age where smaller cap / beret badges were the norm could a left facing collar have been used?

And would this badge Keith showed back in 2011 be the candidate for the officers badge?

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...59&postcount=2

Slightly aside in a Google search I found the below image, the sole remnants of an old eBay listing where sadly the other photos have long since disappeared into the ether. It’s clearly from a different die to the repro stubby nosed Gaunt nag. A handsome looking beast.

The dimensions were given as a humongous 9cm x 8.5cm. A pouch badge, perhaps?

[grey_green_acorn]

I suspect that the use of anodised collar badges in headress (berets and side caps) is/was more common than we think. Known documented examples include collar badges used following the disbandment of the Infantry Brigade system (e.g. KINGS and LANCASHIRES(PWV). Also the contraction and expansion of the Territorial Army and Volunteer Reserve from the late 1960s onwards left newly formed units needing to wear something pending approval from the Army Dress Committee.

This Flint and Denbigh Yeomanry anodised collar badge is heavily abraded, not the kind of damage that would occur if worn on a uniform jacket!

Use of a single correctly facing collar badge may explain why there is a surfeit of some collar badges facing the 'wrong way'.

Tim

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Luke H

In the post war age where smaller cap / beret badges were the norm could a left facing collar have been used?

And would this badge Keith showed back in 2011 be the candidate for the officers badge?

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...59&postcount=2

Slightly aside in a Google search I found the below image, the sole remnants of an old eBay listing where sadly the other photos have long since disappeared into the ether. It’s clearly from a different die to the repro stubby nosed Gaunt nag. A handsome looking beast.

The dimensions were given as a humongous 9cm x 8.5cm. A pouch badge, perhaps?

The badge shown is the pouch badge. As you say a rather large 9 x 8.5 cm

[Alan O]

There was only one battalion of the QOB and they were the Regular Battalion who wore the a/a collar badges as recorded in the early edition of the regimental journal with the Home Counties Brigade cap badge. This was very unpopular but there is nothing at all in any edition of the regimental magazine in pictures or text to suggest that the collar was used as cap badge. Tim is quite right about collars being used at the end of the Bde system or in the case of the Green Howards they reverted to old designs. The DERR were simpler and just put a slider on their collars.

The QOB design was used on signs and letter heads and a pouch abdge is quite possible.

There was not a TA Bn of the QOB. I will say that again - there was not a TA Bn of the QOB.

There was the 4th Bn and the 5th Bn The Buffs TA and the 4th/5th Bn QO RWK TA. They wore the Buffs and the RWK badges right up to 1966. Please read the Regimental Journals as they are quite definitive.

Same for the ACF Bns.

There was never an official a/a cap badge made, ordered or sealed for QOB as Chris Marsh's authoritative record of all a/a badges shows.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Alan O

There was not a TA Bn of the QOB. I will say that again - there was not a TA Bn of the QOB.

I think that is a bit to strong (but I understand why you say so).

Those TA battalions were part of the corps of The Queen's Own Buffs, Royal K
ent Regiment (transferred to it in 1961) without change of titles (and of badges).

In 1966 they were transferred to The Queens Regiment. Again without change of titles (and badges).

I think that "belonging to the corps of ...." means that the normal support of the regular unit to it's TA battalions and v.v. were in place.

[Alan O]

After a lot of time reading through the regimental journals and other correspondance I have the definitive answer on why this badge exists when the QOB Battalion wore the Home Counties Brigade badge for the duration of its existence:

This was written in 2019 and I have emailed the author to find out what the 2 variants look like although I assume one is all white metal whilst the other is the bi-metal version.

I have in my procession a letter dated 13th march 2002 from the QOBs Colchester branch signed G R Arnot. The letter in brief states that a badge was designed as far back as 1957 with the impending 1961 amalgamation and production went ahead, a few badges were produced I have two variations in my collection of badges and regalia of the QORWKR and the QOBs although they were never issued

I don't know how many the RHQ had made but I have found a RHQ PRI price list for 1966 where they are selling regimental ties, blazer badges etc. They sold both Buffs and RWK cap badges and also list a QOB badge. This would confirm that for a short period at least you could buy a QOB badge from their PRI. Whether they ordered these as souvenir items or were selling off sample badges that they had made in the late 50's.

This does appear to explain not only why 2 variants exist but are only found in such small numbers. The fact they were produced as samples and never ordered in mass or sealed also explains the lack of an NSN or any other official documentation.

If I can get a photo of the badges in question I will post them here.

[Luke H]

So just to confirm Queensman’s statement and recollection wasn’t ‘bol**ks’ after all?

And it was likely PRI and unofficial badges being referred from a very small batch which explains their scarcity and that the SP records weren’t there for Chris Marsh to find.

I’m still of the opinion the BM Gaunt B’ham badge I’ve seen on here is a fake however.

[Alan O]

While he may have in his possession a commemerative badge from the PRI, the fact remains that they were not worn by the Battalion. It's 50 years ago so memories do fade.

It's not impossible that the Gaunt Bham one is a late 1966 PRI purchase as the mark was in use in the 60's.

[Alan O]

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/queens...-kent-regiment

A very good photo of the silver collar badges in use. Keith Blakeman has posted before his silver lugged QOB badge which I suspect is the same of the officers' collar badges on their Blues jackets in this photo.

[Luke H]

The Gaunt B’ham one I’m certain is a fake. I’ve only ever seen it on 1970s or later produced metal badges.

Also the collars and large pouch badge have a small patch of turf above the Invicta scroll, presumably an ode to the Buffs. The Gaunt B’ham produced badges lack this, which may support them being suspect.

Re his memory fading perhaps but in his first thread / post (now deleted?!) he comments on only having 1 photo of himself wearing the badge in a side cap. So unless he imagined a photo too!

Admin / Mods - Stormynorm first post and thread introducing himself with the information I first provided and quoted in post #25 appears to have been deleted??? He had 2 posts on this forum. Now only 1. Can someone explain please? It appears his old introductory thread has been deleted…

The thread I mentioned was there yesterday…

[Alan O]

Not sure where the thread has gone to but a side cap in that period was private purchase and generally officers or SNCOs. If there was a QOB in it then it's a mis-used collar badge in place of the correct Brigade badge. An unofficial personal affection maybe?

There was precedence elsewhere such as Colonel Mitchell of the Argylles whotolerated (encouraged?) his battalion reverting to the old Argylles badges in Aden and there is film footage of both in wear from that conflict. It was very unofficial but so was the man himself by all accounts.

[Luke H]

It was titled ‘Old Queensman falling in’ by Stormynorm posted in 2012 and could be found until late last night / today at this extension:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=22586

Edit: re the claimed dress I would imagine being attached to the US Army in Korea there would be almost no one who would know or care much re British Army dress regs, depending on his seniority and size of the detachment.