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  #16  
Old 19-08-14, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Mike, Just the usual silver a/a examples. I don't know the date the pattern was sealed but it must be late 50's - early 60's and still worn by the RTR today. I've got FIRMIN and GAUNT marked examples - and oddly a gold example marked JR GAUNT LONDON - clearly a colour error.

Regards all

Bess
Hi Bess,

I think the gold coloured badge was worn by the RTR band, can anyone confirm this?

Regards, Bill
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  #17  
Old 19-08-14, 01:18 PM
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I was thinking that some other units have blacked cap badges, but them remembered that the RTR are unique in wearing a true black beret, so, as my father says, "It'd be like a black cat int coal mine"

Ian H
Armoured cavalry, were issued black berets in 1939 or shortly after. The reason they don't wear them now is because they made the changes themselves. I think there are one or two who still wear black, like the QRL, but I'd need that confirmed.
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  #18  
Old 19-08-14, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by slick_mick View Post
Is there a Black RTR badge with a slider? Or did they only have lugs?

Mick
Not that ive ever seen Mick. Yet if you look closely at some examples you can see the place where the slider would be located.
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  #19  
Old 19-08-14, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68 View Post
Hi Bess,

I think the gold coloured badge was worn by the RTR band, can anyone confirm this?

Regards, Bill
I mentioned the gold badge to a lady that works for the museum .She didn't mention it,so presume that if it was a band item she would have said so.
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  #20  
Old 19-08-14, 08:59 PM
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Default QRL and the Black Beret

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Originally Posted by Hussar100 View Post
Armoured cavalry, were issued black berets in 1939 or shortly after. The reason they don't wear them now is because they made the changes themselves. I think there are one or two who still wear black, like the QRL, but I'd need that confirmed.
How dare they!! I'm sure that can't be true.

Best wishes

Gordon
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  #21  
Old 19-08-14, 09:06 PM
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The RTR wear black berets, nobody else. The other cavalry regts wear dark blue except for the KRH who wear brown and the RSDG who wear grey and the QRH with their green.
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  #22  
Old 19-08-14, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
Not that ive ever seen Mick. Yet if you look closely at some examples you can see the place where the slider would be located.
I might be on to one with a slider.

Will post pics of it if I get it.

Mick
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  #23  
Old 20-08-14, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stTankie View Post
How dare they!! I'm sure that can't be true.

Best wishes

Gordon
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Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
The RTR wear black berets, nobody else. The other cavalry regts wear dark blue except for the KRH who wear brown and the RSDG who wear grey and the QRH with their green.
On OCA days I have clearly seen brethren of the 8th KRIH wearing a pure black beret (note - pure black, not dark blue) and I'm aware that this was an issue item to all armoured cavalry from 1939 onwards until various regimental colonels started introducing coloured berets.

The Observer Corps wore black berets too, with RAF blue uniforms.

The IRA wear black berets too

EDIT: http://www.1rtr.net/blackberet.html confirms that the entire Royal Armoured Corps wore black berets from 1940 onwards. The current schedule for the wearing of black berets is:

Royal Tank Regiment
W (Westminster Dragoons) Squadron
Royal Yeomanry
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Last edited by Hussar100; 20-08-14 at 12:59 PM.
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  #24  
Old 20-08-14, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Hussar100 View Post
wearing a pure black beret (note - pure black, not dark blue)
It is not till you see a Black and a Dark Navy Blue Beret next to each other that you really see the difference!

Royal British Legion Standard Bearers are meant to wear a Black Beret, but many wear Dark Blue as the are more available.
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Last edited by Mike_2817; 20-08-14 at 01:11 PM.
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  #25  
Old 20-08-14, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by slick_mick View Post
I might be on to one with a slider.

Will post pics of it if I get it.

Mick
Id love to see it if you do Mick.
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  #26  
Old 20-08-14, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_2817 View Post
It is not till you see a Black & Dark Navy Blue Beret next to each other that you really see the difference!
I've seen them both side by side Mike. At RAC Trg Regt we Irish Hussars were issued with dark blue berets instead of the rifle green ones with silk banding which we got when reporting for RD. This was common with some regiments like us, RSDG, RH etc. RTR chaps on the other hand got their black berets straight away. So we were very adept at spotting the difference.

This is why I was surprised to see old Korea hands from the 8th wearing black berets and why I asked them about it.

Of course the link I gave is a confirmation, one amongst many, that the entire RAC wore a black beret from 1940 onwards. It wasn't until post 1945 that the RTR laid claim to the black beret as the distinction it had been pre war but even then it's not exclusive in the army as I've shown.
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  #27  
Old 20-08-14, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hussar100 View Post
I've seen them both side by side Mike. At RAC Trg Regt we Irish Hussars were issued with dark blue berets instead of the rifle green ones with silk banding which we got when reporting for RD. This was common with some regiments like us, RSDG, RH etc. RTR chaps on the other hand got their black berets straight away. So we were very adept at spotting the difference.

This is why I was surprised to see old Korea hands from the 8th wearing black berets and why I asked them about it.

Of course the link I gave is a confirmation, one amongst many, that the entire RAC wore a black beret from 1940 onwards. It wasn't until post 1945 that the RTR laid claim to the black beret as the distinction it had been pre war but even then it's not exclusive in the army as I've shown.
Point taken .
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  #28  
Old 20-08-14, 03:35 PM
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Ive been looking into the blackened badge thing. The following comes from the assistant curator of the tank museum.

The black anodised RTR was manufactured in response to the soldiers painting them black. They were first issued to 3RTR for a tour of NI.
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  #29  
Old 20-08-14, 04:18 PM
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Ive been looking into the blackened badge thing. The following comes from the assistant curator of the tank museum.

The black anodised RTR was manufactured in response to the soldiers painting them black. They were first issued to 3RTR for a tour of NI.
That's kind of what I thought. After 1980 a lot of units issued blackened badges for the same reason. Even in the UDR where we had quite happily worn a gilt finish Maid of Erin we were then told to wear blackened ones as other ex UDR guys on this site will confirm.
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  #30  
Old 20-08-14, 04:59 PM
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The Armour at CAD Kineton did mine with 'Weapon Black' the paint used to touch up or finish weapons that were worn to the metal, as it was hard wearing. I never saw a commercial RAOC example.

I regard any badge that was worn in service as collectable, be it a Prototype, Issued & Approved, NAAFI or PRI Specials, or sold by the Garrison Militaria Shop. As well as local produced examples such as Indian Cast etc. Badges painted or blackened for Service in N.I. included (Worn by me as it happens) or for wear in the Commando Ordnance (now Logistic) Squadron.

Note: My collecting criteria may not be the same or as tightly defined as some! for a start its limited to one Corps! which means easier to research
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Last edited by Mike_2817; 20-08-14 at 05:10 PM.
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