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  #1  
Old 21-04-13, 02:26 AM
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Default Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh’s) [Early]

Hi Guys,

Here is an example of a dodgy Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh’s) [Early] cap badge that is noted on page 147 of Anodised Aluminium: The 'No Bull' Cap Badge of the British Army, Chapter 15: Fakes and Reproductions.

Note the modern slider more commonly associated with the London Badge & Button Co Ltd.

Also note the small ‘J.R.GUANT LONDON’ marking which appears to have been applied BEFORE anodising and colour dying which is a bit of a worry.

Regards

Chris
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File Type: jpg Wiltshire Regt Obverse.jpg (90.6 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg Wiltshire Regt Reverse.jpg (89.4 KB, 69 views)
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  #2  
Old 21-04-13, 05:36 AM
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Ive seen genuine examples made by Grove Mfg
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  #3  
Old 21-04-13, 05:41 AM
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The type set on the slider is nowhere near the right size for Gaunt badge,its way too small.That sort of size is more in taking with a Firmins London sort of size.
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  #4  
Old 21-04-13, 07:42 AM
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Hello Mike,

My example has a double bent brass slider which is riveted to the badge, marked ' GROVE MFG, B'HAM ', I am 100% certain it is a genuine model !!

Dave.
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  #5  
Old 21-04-13, 07:55 AM
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Hi Guys,

The Grove Manufacturing example does exist with a non-aluminium slider.

As an aside: The problem that I have with this particular unit badge is that I never found any info on it from an official source stating that it was officially authorised for issue. It is included though under Appendix 8 - Non-Authorised Cap Badges (possibles) as it has all the features of a good piece.

I have started this thread so that collectors can be on the look out for this particular modern item which, regardless if the original Grove piece was officially authorised or not, is a recent dud.

I am told that the item shown in the images is at least five years old but source is unknown.

Do you have a badge like this?

If so:

a) Where did you get it from?

b) When did you acquire it?

Regards

Chris
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  #6  
Old 21-04-13, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagwalther View Post
Hi Guys,

The Grove Manufacturing example does exist with a non-aluminium slider.

As an aside: The problem that I have with this particular unit badge is that I never found any info on it from an official source stating that it was officially authorised for issue. It is included though under Appendix 8 - Non-Authorised Cap Badges (possibles) as it has all the features of a good piece.

I have started this thread so that collectors can be on the look out for this particular modern item which, regardless if the original Grove piece was officially authorised or not, is a recent dud.

I am told that the item shown in the images is at least five years old but source is unknown.

Do you have a badge like this?

If so:

a) Where did you get it from?

b) When did you acquire it?

Regards

Chris
The usual suspect,that is no longer with us.I remember seeing them mid to late 90`s along with various other very rare items.
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  #7  
Old 21-04-13, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
The usual suspect,that is no longer with us.I remember seeing them mid to late 90`s along with various other very rare items.
Hi Mike,

Him was it...

The worrying thing is that who ever made these badges with all the heavy presses in a commercial environment allowed the dodgy Gaunt mark to be applied before the badge body and slider were assembled, anodised and colour dyed. Manufacturers of unofficial commissions, until now, to my knowledge, have not placed any makers name on the slider.

If anyone is thinking of going down this path do note that you will be found out.

Make no mistake on this matter.

Regards

Chris
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  #8  
Old 21-04-13, 09:31 PM
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There was one on e..y.c.m a few weeks back being sold from Australia.
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  #9  
Old 21-04-13, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
There was one on e..y.c.m a few weeks back being sold from Australia.
Hi Mike,

Yes, I know - I bought it as displayed here.

I do keep a collection of fakes for future reference and may put them all together in a small publication at some time.

If anyone has a genuine one please contact me - prefer to trade but can possibly purchase.

Regards

Chris
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  #10  
Old 22-04-13, 02:25 PM
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Default Wiltshire Regt (DOE) Early

Hi Chris i have this badge makers stamp on mine is not central but looks hand punched!! i cannot remember where or how much i paid for it and like you i too have a collection of fakes as long as i know what makes them a fake i dont mind Chris
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  #11  
Old 22-04-13, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris cunniffe View Post
Hi Chris i have this badge makers stamp on mine is not central but looks hand punched!! i cannot remember where or how much i paid for it and like you i too have a collection of fakes as long as i know what makes them a fake i dont mind Chris
Hi Chris,

Hand punching was, as far as I know, the method of stamping sliders with makers marks.

This particular badge is a fake as it has a modern slider and fake marking.

Regards

Chris
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  #12  
Old 23-04-13, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagwalther View Post
Hi Chris,

Hand punching was, as far as I know, the method of stamping sliders with makers marks.

This particular badge is a fake as it has a modern slider and fake marking.

Regards

Chris
Would they not have used a hand press with a made up punch that marked the slider .That may explain the extra tool mark that you find.
The extra mark could be from the bottom tool used when the slider is bent,or from the tool punch used to mark it .
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  #13  
Old 23-04-13, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
Would they not have used a hand press with a made up punch that marked the slider .That may explain the extra tool mark that you find.
The extra mark could be from the bottom tool used when the slider is bent,or from the tool punch used to mark it .
Possibly, but some sliders have the maker mark on the reverse side facing the back of the badge. Thiis implies that the manufacturers mark was made before the slider was bent 90 degrees for attaching to the badge body. Also, the placing of the mark on the slider appears to be random in location and direction.

Regards

Chris
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