ID request for the museum... 8th RECCE and Kangaroo

[Bwetdude]

Let's hear it... this is part of the museum's collection...

C.40 8th RECONNAISSANCE REGIMENT

C.57 1st CANADIAN ARMOURED CARRIER REGIMENT

Front and back

Enjoy.

[jim a]

The 8th recee looks good but I wouldn't say the same for the Kangaroo...

[Bill A]

Agreed, the 1 CARC is a repro.

[WJ Miller]

The Kangaroo badge is definitely a repro.

[barriefield-brian]

8th recce looks good. Brian

[Bwetdude]

This collection was "probably" put together by Brigadier General John S.
McCannel... and his partner named Struthers...

So that "kangaroo" must date back to before 1976. (he died then)

[Bwetdude]

So the Kangaroo is made from the post-war die....

[Bill A]

Yes, that is correct. Not sure if it is the image or the badge, but the colour of the metal is coppery looking.

[Bwetdude]

It's copper brown. Not "goldy" shiny brass.

[WJ Miller]

Regardless of colour/composition, this 'type' of badge is a dud.

These reproductions, made in the UK, have been around since the early 70's (at least). The exact origins remain unknown. They generally comes in two 'flavours'; Thin, very yellow brass, and red/brown gilding metal (like this Museum example) which has a higher copper content than regular brass, hence the tarnished penny colour. The surface of the badges is often seen with artificial aging, smooth polishing to the high relief areas and/or quite a few often have a black 'gunk' stuck on them. In recent years this die stuck copy has shown up in brass again but with a slider attached. One of this type was being flogged on eBay not too long ago.


The forum gallery has good quality images of both 'real' badges and the common repro. So you can make comparisons to the Museum's example and draw your own conclusion. It can be difficult to tell the good from the bad without having seen both badges side by side.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/can...ment/index.htm



There are, from time to time, cast copies of genuine badges that pop up. These badges range widely in quality of casting and materials used (I have examples in plastic, lead, copper, brass and mixed/undetermined metals). These can be far more difficult to identify and some, like a recent example out of Belgium, could easily fool even an experienced collector. The origins of these types of copies are difficult to ascertain as well, in some maybe most cases they seem to be 'one off' efforts either made by veterans themselves or collectors looking for a more accurate 'hole-filler'?

Did the badges in the Museum collection come with any documentation as to how they were collected or how they were individually acquired... (he asks, 99% sure of the answer)

[Bwetdude]

The acquisition ledger I work with right now was rewritten in-between 1989 and 1994.

I does not contain the donor's name.

Lots of the military items in the collection comes from Brigadier General John S.
McCannel which was given by his wife Mary Eleanor Ball and Lady Henrietta Banting.

But if you guys say it's a dud, I'll enter that info in my cataloging.


Thanks!

[WJ Miller]

Originally Posted by Bwetdude

...But if you guys say it's a dud...

Uh, uh Patrick... in light of the documentation presented in this thread and numerous others on this forum, what do YOU think? You don't sound convinced?? Perhaps Bill A, Jim and myself are all out to lunch. (Unlikely though, )

The following comment is not a criticism aimed at you or anybody specifically, but just an occasion to get on my soapbox and voice an observation and perhaps some advice to ALL members of the forum.

On a daily basis, collectors gather on this forum and inevitably the same question arises in various categories, "Is this badge any good?".

An all too easy question begging a quick and easy answer, with little thought to learning how the answer may be derived. For many common repros, there is a wealth of information to be had on this forum (and other places). The search function is a marvelous tool. That said, I would like to see more young collectors or the generally inquisitive minds that gather here put a little effort into researching the badge a little first before asking the question.

What I think would be a more beneficial approach would be to gather a little information on the badge first, identifying possible flaws or other characteristics, then form an opinion on the badge based on said observation and then voice that opinion in a challenge to the forum members to agree or disagree in a debate on a particular badge's merits.

Very rarely does that happen here. It's a shame. It would help everyone learn a little more.

Again, Patrick I don't want you to think this is a criticism of you or your original question. I also realize you likely have a great number of items to catalog and are trying to expedite the process while being dilligent in YOUR record keeping. That's why I put a little more effort into my answer than I normally would. No offense meant.

[Bwetdude]

well I was looking for the Jpeg you posted about the wartime and postwar pattern.

I couldn't find it... except a re-posted image the was kinda too small to read and see the details...

And the 8th RECCE badge I never saw before in my life.... while there are pictures in the gallery, I knew collectors could spot a real from a repro pretty fast.

Which is why I asked here "good or bad?".

As for the museum's collection... I wish my predecessors would have kept better records of acquisition... but they didn't.

So right now, I'm in the process of photographing the entire collection and making entries in a new database... after that's done... if I'm still with the living... the plan is to find the old ledgers and work my way back to the donors and real acquisition dates.

Anyhow, thanks for the answer.

[Bill A]

A note of caution. There is an "aura" attached to accumulations put together by certain reputable individuals/organizations/musuems. Their accumulations are viewed as original, authentic material simply because of their reputation. They may have fallen for repros and added them to their collection. WE don't know how or exactly when the badges were added to these accumulations and they may well have been picked up from a flea market or some dealer peddling bad wares.

[Pylon1357]

For that matter, the badge could have been swapped out with a reproduction piece, by someone in the past.