Home Guard Badges

[Bala]

Help needed to determine the insignia worn by AUXILIARY UNIT personnel in Pembrokshire, Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire. In 1942 AUX Units were given Home Guard battalion numbers 201, 202 & 203

Monmouthshire is thought to be MON
and the battalion number to be 202

Were they all 202 or some 203?

The Imperial War Museum hold a photograph of a patch CC over 203 However CC was Caernarvonshire in North Wales an area that had no AUX Units.

Note: 201 Bn was Scotland and Northumberland
202 Bn covered Eastern and Western Commands
203 Bn Southern Command.

Any help appreciated

[Bala]

Can anyone identify this patch please

[badjez]

Bala,

According to files in the PRO there were units in Herefordshire and Caernarfon but nowhere else in Wales or the Welsh border counties of England.
I've attached a photo, taken from WO199/3389.

Looking in Postwarden's book there is a picture of a title worn in Suffolk. It is SFK over 202. Jon also has a photo of a locally made CC over 202 which he attributes to a locally made Caernarfon badge.

Tha badge you showed on your post is attributed to one unofficially worn by a unit of the Women's Home Defence, attached to 11 Denbighshire (Ministry of Food) Bn, HG. Again, this is shown in Jon's book.


Stephen.

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by badjez

Bala,

According to files in the PRO there were units in Herefordshire and Caernarfon but nowhere else in Wales or the Welsh border counties of England.
I've attached a photo, taken from WO199/3389.

Looking in Postwarden's book there is a picture of a title worn in Suffolk. It is SFK over 202. Jon also has a photo of a locally made CC over 202 which he attributes to a locally made Caernarfon badge.

Tha badge you showed on your post is attributed to one unofficially worn by a unit of the Women's Home Defence, attached to 11 Denbighshire (Ministry of Food) Bn, HG. Again, this is shown in Jon's book.


Stephen.

Hi Stephen,

It says Carmarthen underneath Hereford in region 4 on the PRO document that you show. Carmarthen is on the South Wales coast which would have been almost as vulnerable as the English south coast.

It is likely that there were auxiliary units all along the South Wales coast and if Carmarthen is 202 then probably the other areas of this coast were also 202. Is there more to see of this document. I have heard of an Operational Base that has recently been discovered in a place called Cilybebyll in the Swansea Valley.

Jack

[badjez]

Jack,

The whole file is open for inspection at Kew. It purports to contain the nominal roles for the Groups but very few are there, and it has been well weeded before release. The page I posted lists all the counties in the UK that had auxiliary units. Therefore only the one Welsh county had any units. That is not to say that other HG didn't raise unofficial units on similar lines. I've seen documents mentioning HG Commandos, and Tank Hunting Units, but we are unlikely to find details now unless the MoD ever agree to make available the nominal roles compiled at Standown and retained by the Medals Office. The last time I heard of them was when they were at Droitwich, but that has now closed so I suspect they were shredded!

Stephen.

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by Bala

Help needed to determine the insignia worn by AUXILIARY UNIT personnel in Pembrokshire, Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire. In 1942 AUX Units were given Home Guard battalion numbers 201, 202 & 203

Monmouthshire is thought to be MON
and the battalion number to be 202

Were they all 202 or some 203?

The Imperial War Museum hold a photograph of a patch CC over 203 However CC was Caernarvonshire in North Wales an area that had no AUX Units.

Note: 201 Bn was Scotland and Northumberland
202 Bn covered Eastern and Western Commands
203 Bn Southern Command.

Any help appreciated

Bala, referring to my earlier post and the PRO document shown by Stephen, do you agree that Carmarthen was 202 as it is listed below Hereford in region 4 on the document which can be seen more clearly when enlarged?

Jack

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by badjez

Bala,

According to files in the PRO there were units in Herefordshire and Caernarfon but nowhere else in Wales or the Welsh border counties of England.
I've attached a photo, taken from WO199/3389.

Looking in Postwarden's book there is a picture of a title worn in Suffolk. It is SFK over 202. Jon also has a photo of a locally made CC over 202 which he attributes to a locally made Caernarfon badge.

Tha badge you showed on your post is attributed to one unofficially worn by a unit of the Women's Home Defence, attached to 11 Denbighshire (Ministry of Food) Bn, HG. Again, this is shown in Jon's book.


Stephen.

I am going to revisit this as there seems to be no further response and I am interested in finding out the answer to Bala's initial question as to how the Welsh counties were number designated as Auxiliary Units, were they 201, 202 or 203? As stated Monmouthshire is known to have been 202.

Badjez then posted a photograph of a PRO document from which it was quoted that there was a unit in Caernarvon along with Hereford.

The document states in four regional groups which counties were designated 202. In region four on the document the counties shown are Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, Hereford and CARMARTHEN not CAERNARVON.

This tells me that Carmarthen was 202.

There may have been a unit in Caernarvon but it does not appear anywhere on the document shown here.


Does anyone agree or disagree?

Jack

[badjez]

Jack,

My educated guess is that if a county isn't shown on the PRO list then it did not have a GHQ Auxiliary HG unit officially raised within it. I also have a photocopy of a map showing the outlines of the various national Auxiliary areas. These are numbered 1 to 12, and cover only the east coast of Scotland and England, the south coast, the south-west peninsula, and a small part of south Wales. Unfortunately I cannot scan it as the copy is PRO copy-write.

Stephen.

[49lassiepen]

Off topic I've had the following soft back book for many years A SHORT HISTORY OF THE 1ST GLOUCESTERSHIRE BATTALION HOME GUARD numerous photos 'all the companies and members listed etc A well known collector of the Gloucester Regiment and Bristol based dealer had never come across this book Have any members seen it David

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by badjez

Jack,

My educated guess is that if a county isn't shown on the PRO list then it did not have a GHQ Auxiliary HG unit officially raised within it. I also have a photocopy of a map showing the outlines of the various national Auxiliary areas. These are numbered 1 to 12, and cover only the east coast of Scotland and England, the south coast, the south-west peninsula, and a small part of south Wales. Unfortunately I cannot scan it as the copy is PRO copy-write.

Stephen.

Stephen

I understand what you are saying but the initial question by Bala was that he wanted to know what Auxiliary Unit designations were the Welsh counties of Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, Glamorganshire and Monmouthshire, were they 201, 202 or 203?

The PRO document that you then produced and showed a photograph on here clearly states in region 4 that Carmarthen was 202 as are all the other counties shown on that particular document. So Carmarthen is on the PRO list.

My point is that if we read the information in the document then the question has been partly answered and one of the counties namely Carmarthenshire was designated 202 according to the document. It does not mention any other Welsh counties.

I don't know where you had Caernarvon from in your earlier post, as it was not in the PRO document you showed.

Jack

[jack768]

Originally Posted by 49lassiepen

Off topic I've had the following soft back book for many years A SHORT HISTORY OF THE 1ST GLOUCESTERSHIRE BATTALION HOME GUARD numerous photos 'all the companies and members listed etc A well known collector of the Gloucester Regiment and Bristol based dealer had never come across this book Have any members seen it David

1st gloucester Home Guard. My father was a Lieutenant in the 1st at Cheltenham.
Has the book any ref to the GWR railway, he was a fitter at Cheltenham, I have
a photo of him with the Home Guard at St James Railway Station with the troup
it says on the back "GWR Railway Contingent 1st Gloucesters Home Guard" 1944
Also a photo of him as a sergeant.

[Belly]

If you want to see info on where Auxiliaries operated you should browse through this website:
http://www.coleshillhouse.com/site-search-results.php

I think the aforementioned map from the NA is on there somewhere, but couldn't quickly refind it.

Has anyone ever seen a period photo of the 210, 202 or 203 patches being worn??

thanks
Paul

[ARPCDHG]

Originally Posted by Jack8

I am going to revisit this as there seems to be no further response and I am interested in finding out the answer to Bala's initial question as to how the Welsh counties were number designated as Auxiliary Units, were they 201, 202 or 203? As stated Monmouthshire is known to have been 202.

Badjez then posted a photograph of a PRO document from which it was quoted that there was a unit in Caernarvon along with Hereford.

The document states in four regional groups which counties were designated 202. In region four on the document the counties shown are Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, Hereford and CARMARTHEN not CAERNARVON.

This tells me that Carmarthen was 202.

There may have been a unit in Caernarvon but it does not appear anywhere on the document shown here.


Does anyone agree or disagree?

Jack

Carmarthen was definitely 202 - even though the CART Auxunit website has them as 203 battalion.