... and now we are friends, or a nice surpise.

[Peter Brydon]

Yesterday I did something which is not recommended and bid on a Elizabeth 2nd infantry officers sword ( in its steel scabbard ) at the local auction based on the photograph in the catalogue and not a hands on viewing.

I got the item for £5 over the top of the guide price and picked it up this afternoon. I was expecting that it would probably be an Indian made copy but it is in fact very well made and has the same weight as the older British maker made infantry swords that I have. The wire bound grip appears to be fish skin.

The scabbard is well made and the blade is nicely etched but the most surprising and pleasing thing is the cutlers mark on the blade- E and F Horsten, Solingen, Germany.

Must be a tale there somewhere, I think blades made in Germany were used in British swords many years ago but is this a modern sword made in Germany for a British officer or did the company supply blades to a company in the Far East making cheap copies of British Army pattern swords ?

Would be interested to hear members thoughts.

P.B.

[Paul Spellman]

Hi Peter,
Made in Germany would indicate a post 1989/90 post unification period,
I believe that Solingen had some Defence procurement contracts with Catering knives and in fact when I was based over in Germany I remember Sales Reps coming around selling cased personal sets too.
A far way from the nice sword you have but some little link.
Paul

[Mike_2817]

Here is a modern Navy sword made by WKC at Solingen

http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/

Wilkinson shut down its sword factory in London in November 2005. In December 2005 WKC acquired most machinery, tools, finished and unfinished parts of swords, daggers and knives.
WKC is now in the position to produce most English sword models as per British MOD specifications using Wilkinson's tools.

[Peter Brydon]

Paul,

That is interesting,

Before Wilkinsons finally ceased to exist, I think that new swords made by them required a second mortgage to buy and I also recall that RAF pattern swords were imported from India or Pakistan because about to be commissioned officers were not prepared to pay large amounts for an item that they might only use a couple of times in their careers. Wilkinsons also offered refurbished swords but the prices of those were ridiculously high.

I wonder if Horstens made swords for officers serving in Germany at a considerably cheaper price than Wilkinsons, it sounds as if they already had a foot in then door if German cutlers reps were visiting British bases.

Peter

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Mike,

Does this mean that most " about to be commissioned " British officers are now buying their swords from Solingen ?

Peter

[Mike_2817]

All I know is that WKC is the approved sword supplier to the Royal Logistic Corps and that they are also the approved supplier to other Regiments & Corps, but not all.

[badjez]

Due to the high purchase price I thought that officers no longer purchased their swords but a pool was held by RMAS, Regimental HQ and Corps HQ for issue when required: ceremonial or weddings etc. These pool items were purchased from Regimental or Corps funds not public funds.

Stephen.

[Warstone]

WKC were making swords for J R Gaunt in the 1920's and '30's, mainly the 'Regal' brand (sold through the New York branch).

[Peter Brydon]

Many thanks to Mike, Stephen and Warstone,

Some more information I didn't know.

Peter

[Hussar100]

The grip I believe is bound in shark skin.

[Peter Brydon]

Hussar,

Yes it is shark skin ( shagreen ) and in fact the more I look at the item, the better quality it looks.

Peter

[Hussar100]

The quality does look sensational mate.

[Staffsyeoman]

My other half was one of the first female officers in the RAF to carry a sword - as part of a Guard of Honour at a wedding. They were specific, shorter swords (I think it was described as Officer, RAF, Shorter Stature) and were issued from Halton. She fell in love with it and I always wanted to buy her one - being an RAuxAF officer, it was not expected that she have one. Sadly WKC do not seem to make them; perhaps they are all held on stores.

Nearest I could get was the "letter opener" version. Glad to see WKC still make those; they are lovely things.

[Frank Kelley]

Good heavens Peter,
I normally have a very deep loathing for anything made in that particular country, a nation that caused so much trouble in Europe, three times in seventy years, but, when it came to blades, they were so bloody good.
I still swear by my trusty 1796 pattern light sabre, good old Mr Johnston may have been happy flogging them to "what o ruperts" from his establishment off the Strand, but when it came to the business end of his product, he went to Herr Runkel.
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Yesterday I did something which is not recommended and bid on a Elizabeth 2nd infantry officers sword ( in its steel scabbard ) at the local auction based on the photograph in the catalogue and not a hands on viewing.

I got the item for £5 over the top of the guide price and picked it up this afternoon. I was expecting that it would probably be an Indian made copy but it is in fact very well made and has the same weight as the older British maker made infantry swords that I have. The wire bound grip appears to be fish skin.

The scabbard is well made and the blade is nicely etched but the most surprising and pleasing thing is the cutlers mark on the blade- E and F Horsten, Solingen, Germany.

Must be a tale there somewhere, I think blades made in Germany were used in British swords many years ago but is this a modern sword made in Germany for a British officer or did the company supply blades to a company in the Far East making cheap copies of British Army pattern swords ?

Would be interested to hear members thoughts.

P.B.

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Peter,
I forgot to ask, have you got many swords?
Regards Frank