Artists Rifles - A Study.

[GriffMJ]

I am about to start collecting the "Artists Rifles", this was my paternal Grandfathers Regiment before he joined the RAOC in the 1930s. He was a teacher in London during the late 1920s after moving from his home town in Merthyr Tydfil (Cefn Coed, Lower Vaynor) in Wales. My father also had a connection to the "Artists" as he was part of 21 during the 1970's.

I would appreciate images of "known" copies/fakes so I can steer clear of them

I shall be creating an album to show the changing face of "Minerva" and the variation in the cap badge.

A great choice of badge to study, in my opinion, Griff.

If I can be of any assistance, plase let me know. I have a number of examples and would be happy to contribute images of the badges in my collection.

Best of luck with your project.

Peter.

[Silver Tourist]

Good evening.

Hopefully you will avoid investing funds in the occasionally encountered copy bearing a hallmark, commonly thought to be 1913, but in fact dating to the 1980`s.

The maker`s mark is KVJ. The hallmark is genuine, and the badge was one of perhaps seven different badges copied by a Birmingham manufacturer. If and when I have a moment I may post additional information.

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Fatherofthree]

Originally Posted by Silver Tourist

Good evening.

Hopefully you will avoid investing funds in the occasionally encountered copy bearing a hallmark, commonly thought to be 1913, but in fact dating to the 1980`s.

The maker`s mark is KVJ. The hallmark is genuine, and the badge was one of perhaps seven different badges copied by a Birmingham manufacturer. If and when I have a moment I may post additional information.

Enjoy.

S.T.

Greetings .
Unfortunately I have one of these.

I bought it some years ago, from a Canadian seller, if I remember correctly.

It shows the KVJ initials and has the Anchor and Lion for Birmingham, but it is impossible to determine the year mark.

I began to get suspicious of it after a I couldn't find any KVJ silversmiths and more so with the fact that, although it passes the paper silver test, i.e leaves a mark, it has never tarnished since I cleaned it after the purchase.

I cleaned the front and left the back with tarnish intact, except where I cleared it from around the HM, no hint of tarnishing whatsoever has returned in all those years.

When I get the camera working, I'll try and post a piccie.

Merry Christmas to all.
Regards
Brian

[Fatherofthree]

And as mentioned in my last post, pictures front and back of the badge, showing the KVJ hallmark:

DSC00290.jpg DSC00288.jpg

Regards
Brian

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Fatherofthree

And as mentioned in my last post, pictures front and back of the badge, showing the KVJ hallmark:

Regards
Brian

Interesting. ST mentions this badge copied from one hallmarked with a date 'thought to be 1913' but this is generally thought to be the post WW1 pattern although that's open to debate as I believe images exist of them being worn in this conflict?

[GriffMJ]

I note that the 21 SAS wore a Maroon Beret with a white metal "Artists" Cap badge. Was this cap badge specific to "the Regiment"..... ie a particular variation?

[fwhittle]

I picked up an Artists badge at Malvern, the slider has been removed, lugs fitted and a pipe inseted in Minerva's mouth. The whole thing has then been silver plated. Some sort of presentation peice I would think ?

[johanwiegman]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

I note that the 21 SAS wore a Maroon Beret with a white metal "Artists" Cap badge. Was this cap badge specific to "the Regiment"..... ie a particular variation?

hi Griff,

The beret badge worn by 21 on the maroon beret from 1948-1956 was exclusively the white metal or silver badge with "Artists". The ones with "Artists Rifles" were not worn by 21 SAS. I have seen 2 variations of the badge. The pattern on the right is prettier, but the other pattern was worn also.

Cheers,

Johan

[fwhittle]

I have tried to take pictures but with my camera they are very poor quality, I am woking on this by borrowing a better camera, will then have a go at posting some pictures.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by johanwiegman

hi Griff,

The beret badge worn by 21 on the maroon beret from 1948-1954 was exclusively the white metal or silver badge with "Artists". The ones with "Artists Rifles" were not worn by 21 SAS. I have seen 2 variations of the badge. The pattern on the right is prettier, but the other pattern was worn also.

Cheers,



Johan

Johan,
I was going to ask Griff where he got the image of the Maroon beret with the rather awful looking badge (oversized visor).. I have come across several of these badges and none of them have convinced me that they were genuine! Can you confirm that both the beret and badge are period or has the badge with Mars wearing a comedy helmet been added at a later date?

Best regards

Andy

[GriffMJ]

Andy

Here are two versions brass and white metal.... BTW I have found 4 varients with the "ARTISTS" scroll so far.

[2747andy]

Griff,
here are some good ones, less the one in the middle which is, as the thread points out an earlier badge (I'm happy for you to use the images if you so wish).

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=21324

Andy

[johanwiegman]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Johan,
I was going to ask Griff where he got the image of the Maroon beret with the rather awful looking badge (oversized visor).. I have come across several of these badges and none of them have convinced me that they were genuine! Can you confirm that both the beret and badge are period or has the badge with Mars wearing a comedy helmet been added at a later date?

Best regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

I agree that pattern is ugly as sin! However, it was on the 21 SAS veteran beret I obtained from a good source and it had been on that beret for a long time, so I believe that ugly pattern was indeed worn.

I am pretty sure the white metal Artists beret badge was heavily reproduced.

Cheers,

Johan

[fwhittle]

Pictures as requested of the artists badge with a pipe.