Help with finding service records.

[tonyb]

I'm after some help if possible.
Am after information regarding a CWCG casualty.
Private M Ryan
Royal Irish Regiment
9912
Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
Limerick.

Thanks Tony.

[manchesters]

Tony,

In my experience service records for deceased personnel were not kept after WW1. Thare are exceptions but as a general rule, no.

regards

[Frank Kelley]

WO363 and WO364 have never been made available for a manual search because of their condition, so if there is nothing found on line, after looking at every Michael Ryan (as they can be, on occasion, mixed by error) then his papers will not be extant.

His entry in the Register of Soldiers Effects is there at the National Army Museum and confirms upon his death, his account was settled, with the sum of £4 and 5 pence being paid out to his sister, Mary Maker, on the 13th of October 1916.

Originally Posted by tonyb

I'm after some help if possible.
Am after information regarding a CWCG casualty.
Private M Ryan
Royal Irish Regiment
9912
Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
Limerick.

Thanks Tony.

[leigh kitchen]

An M. Ryan of 3 RIR, but no army number given:

First Name:
M
Surname:
Ryan
Incident Date:
06/04/1916
Rank:
Private
Duty Location:
Dublin
Date Of Court Martial:
31/03/1916
Nature Of Charge:
The accused was charged with the crime of Desertion. This offence is defined as leaving military service without the intention of returning. The Army Act 1881 explains that desertion, 'implies an intention on the part of the soldier either not to return to His Majesty’s service at all or to escape some important service”.
Sentence:
The accused was sentenced to 6 months detention.
Primary Unit:
Royal Irish Regiment
Secondary Unit:
3rd Battalion
Archive Reference:
WO86/69

[Frank Kelley]

9912 Private Michael Ryan did serve in the 3rd Battalion Royal Irish Rifles.

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

An M. Ryan of 3 RIR, but no army number given:

First Name:
M
Surname:
Ryan
Incident Date:
06/04/1916
Rank:
Private
Duty Location:
Dublin
Date Of Court Martial:
31/03/1916
Nature Of Charge:
The accused was charged with the crime of Desertion. This offence is defined as leaving military service without the intention of returning. The Army Act 1881 explains that desertion, 'implies an intention on the part of the soldier either not to return to His Majesty’s service at all or to escape some important service”.
Sentence:
The accused was sentenced to 6 months detention.
Primary Unit:
Royal Irish Regiment
Secondary Unit:
3rd Battalion
Archive Reference:
WO86/69

[leigh kitchen]

Date of death wasnt mentioned in Post 1, it was26th June 1916 according to CWGC.

[Grevisk]

Originally Posted by tonyb

I'm after some help if possible.
Am after information regarding a CWCG casualty.
Private M Ryan
Royal Irish Regiment
9912
Mount St Lawrence Cemetery.
Limerick.

Thanks Tony.

Hi Tony,

A few pointers for you, the CWGC website shows Michael Ryan as 3rd Btn R Ir Regt. The 3rd were the reserve battalion of the regiment and were in Dublin at the time of his death.

The court martial record would be worth chasing up as this gives his sentence as six months which, given the date of his death means that he might have been under detention when he died. Worth looking at the original document in WO96/69, there could be an additional annotation to the record giving further details.

Also the dates given raise a few questions, the offence occuring after the courts martial date!!

He doesn't appear in the Royal Irish Regt British War and Victory medal roll (WO329/950 pages 1931 (b) to 1935 (b) cover the 22 Michael's and one Michael Henry Ryan's on the roll. So it's likely he had no overseas service during WWI.

Hope the above helps.

[tonyb]

Thanks to everyone for their help so far on this one.
Cheers Tony.

[leigh kitchen]

I have no experience of such research, but his death certificate may be enlightening. If we are dealing with the same man desertion followed by death in detention may indicate a certain act desperation.......
Then again, we could be dealing with different men.

[Toby Purcell]

Men sentenced to 6-months imprisonment occasionally had their sentences commuted provided that they returned to their unit for active service. This was especially common in the lead up to offensive action and as this man was with the feeder unit (3rd Reserve Bn) for the 1st and 2nd regular battalions then I suspect that that is what has happened in this man’s case. Serving would have seen his pay continue and perhaps allotments paid to his family. Imprisonment would have seen all his pay stopped. In that context it might be significant that his accrued financial value went to his sister.

[mm1]

Strange - nothing on Ancestry, but a search of number 9912 and royal irish regiment comes up with a different name...not the first time I have come across this and found that an alias was being used !

Mark