Scottish Independence

[JerryBB]

I was intending to stay out of this. I hope that Scotland votes to stay a part of the UK.

That said I can understand to some extent why they might wish to leave as they did not vote for the current Tory government but are suffering under the current governments policies and many probably remember suffering under the Thatcher regime when they then did not vote in a Tory government. Under the current system, all of the UK gets the government that the English vote for, which is often not the same as that voted for in Scotland and Wales.

I do think it will be a mistake for all of us if Scotland splits from the UK, but I do not know how else they will get the government they vote for.

I fail to understand how anyone who spent 20 years living abroad can then comment about restricting immigration into the UK, it just seems odd to me.

[altcar73]

Jerry,

"Under the current system, all of the UK gets the government that the English vote for, which is often not the same as that voted for in Scotland and Wales".

Either you don't understand the electoral system in the UK, or you've made a statement without appreciating the implication of what you have said!

When the UK has a general election it is not only the English that are entitled to vote but also the rest of the UK. If I'm not mistaken that includes Scotland and Wales.............

Now that you've raised the issue, please explain why Scottish and Welsh MP's debate and vote on issues which impact on the English people. My MP has no say in what goes on in the Scottish or Welsh assemblies.

We live in a democracy and if the majority in Scotland want to wander off on their own then let them.

Dave.

[2747andy]

Well I thought long and hard about posting an eloquent response, but sod it, the thought that Scotland may be on the verge of leaving the Union really concerns me!


I would not trust Salmond to babysit my goldfish never mind run my country! He's on one big ego trip and if you are Scottish and intend to stay at home on Thursday to see how things pan out then don't be so foolish! He is just as dangerous as Nigel Fararge but with a Scottish accent and fat to boot!

I am 100% Welsh but equally as British, if Scotland decides to go it alone then it will be IMO an irreversible mistake bigger than buying a WW1 Cap Badge with a Gaunt B'HAM makers mark!

Come on the Jocks, don't let Salmond take the Great out of Great Britain!

Andy

[ebro]

Andy,

I thought you were not going to post an eloquent response.


Eddie

[2747andy]

Eddie,
I'm not one to get excited over politics, but this is something that will touch us all (The British members) regardless of nationality! Salmond is a numpty and I hope this time next week he is put back in the box from which he appears to have sprung from! I hope and pray so anyway!

Andy

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by altcar73

Jerry,

"Under the current system, all of the UK gets the government that the English vote for, which is often not the same as that voted for in Scotland and Wales".

Either you don't understand the electoral system in the UK, or you've made a statement without appreciating the implication of what you have said!

When the UK has a general election it is not only the English that are entitled to vote but also the rest of the UK. If I'm not mistaken that includes Scotland and Wales.............

Now that you've raised the issue, please explain why Scottish and Welsh MP's debate and vote on issues which impact on the English people. My MP has no say in what goes on in the Scottish or Welsh assemblies.

We live in a democracy and if the majority in Scotland want to wander off on their own then let them.

Dave.

Dave, obviously the populations in Wales and Scotland are far lower than those in England so my point still stands in that generally whomever the English vote for forms the government of the UK regardless of how the voting in the rest of the UK goes. Why it is thought fair that those members from Wales and Scotland get to vote on English issues but the opposite is not true seems unfair to me.

As I already posted, I will be sorry to see Scotland split off from the UK. I am Welsh by birth as were my parents and grand parents, but I am Anglo Welsh by upbringing with most of my known earlier ancestors coming from England and probably Scandinavia before that, and like many Britons I am somewhat of a mongrel as are, as far as I understand it, many of us here and have been for a very long time after suffering -or enjoying depending on your point of view- successive waves of immigrants or invaders since the Romans, followed by the Anglo Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans, the Flemish, etc......

[GriffMJ]

Together we ran an Empire..... apart we kicked the crap out of each other.....so, rocket science anyone

[LONGSHANKS]

Originally Posted by connaught

No problen Simon, every nation has its misconceptions/inaccuracies in their historical narratives,no nation can be excluded in this regard.

A good book about Irish neutrality http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Book...reen%2BCurtain

I am always worried about the accuracy of Wiki but here is another link worth looking at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eme..._the_Emergency


Two questions, do you think that the relationship between Scots and English has now fundamentally changed? and do you see a schism looming in Scottish society?

Hi Connaught

I'm half Irish myself, and having original members of the IRA back in my family history to just after the Great War until independence. So I'm not biased here for either English, Irish or Scots, having a bit of all of the above. A true Brit....

But I don't think it can be fully convincing to say that Southern Ireland was shall we say not a little biased against the remaining Empire they once were a member of.
But that's not what we are all chatting about.

The Scots.......

After watching this unfold and ranting at the TV etc, I have to be honest. I really think the Scottish Referendum is the acute fear and loathing of who sit's in Number 10 and the government they run, and is nothing more than a fully expressed opportunity to change the norm. It is nothing more than a growing sign of not only the Scots distrust of Governance by the establishment but a sign that all within the UK are tired. They, the Scots are just really taking the opportunity to scare the preverbal out the London power brokers, either way they know something will change for the better.
I have not yet met, since getting back to the UK any Brit who is happy with the last bunch or this bunch. But what is transparent is becoming the mirror image of an attitude the Scots have towards Whitehall.
I know there are a few no doubt that do not like Nigel Farage either. But.......it is a sign that we demand a change as much as the Scots are possibly getting either way they vote.

[sailorbear]

As an Englishman with a proud Highland ancestry all I can say is it doesn't really matter now, the harm has been done! If they vote yes then Salmond will destroy Scotland and the UK if its no, then he's achieved splitting a proud noble nation right down the middle. whatever the outcome Scotland will now be a bitterly divided nation for generations. Wow what a legacy to be proud of!

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

My apologies Connaught, I stand corrected. Maybe the U-Boat stories are mythical, but I thinks it's more to do with leanings towards any enemy of England when our back's were turned.

May not U-boats, but plenty of other machinations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_R...n_World_War_II



Simon.

Simon.

It is an extremely disingenuous assertion that anything even remotely representing an official or majority view in Ireland supported Nazi Germany during World War II

John

[LONGSHANKS]

Not really John.

"my enemies enemy is my friend"......hence the last 600 years of issues between Scots, Irish and the English.

While the English were distracted, opportunities arise. Whether you think that is the right actions or not, it is what was the norm.

Regards

Simon.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

Not really John.

Whether you think that is the right actions or not, it is what was the norm.

Regards

Simon.

and there I shall politely disagree with you in relation to Ireland and World War II and bow out and allow you to discuss the forthcoming referendum in Scotland

sincerely

John

[Paul Spellman]

3rd Lancashire Rifle Volunteers
Showing flora of the Union
Well,it is a badge forum!

[LONGSHANKS]

Bloody Scottish independence .....while distracted by a damn debate on TV....and after watching avidly for day's, I missed an WW1 Egyptian Labour Corps badge last night by 10 seconds.........

I'll never for give them now........yes or no.......

It's just the beginning of the loss's now either way........:roll eyes:


Simon.

[rhodesianmilitaria]

What I don't understand is why are they allowing 16 year olds to vote or have I missed something in the translation since I'm an Aussie with Irish ancestry.