Cavalry cap badges - spotting the fakes

[Alan O]

3rd Hussars had 2 versions of their badge.

The Victorian era badge has 3 lugs (Pic 1-2) and this was replaced by a slider (5-6).

The common MM fakes have a much deeper scroll where the angle of the genuine ones are shallower. (3-4)

No 1916 all brass version was made. It has been faked using the same deep scroll die. (Pic 9)

The WW2 design had a smaller horse. (7-8)

There was not an authorised a/a version of this badge but one exists.

[Alan O]

QVC, KC and QC versions were made: the last was not made in a/a.

A KC versions followed. Pic 3-4 is a WW2 example and earlier ones have brasing holes in the scroll.

Pic 5-6 shows the fake QVC with the overlaid numerals and a fake QC. (7-8)

Whilst the q/c were sealed in 1955 it is questionable whether any were actually made or issued as they amalgamated in 1958. The one in K&K looks to be an officer's s/g.

[3dg]

Excellent thread Alan,
Thank you for your time.

Chris

[Alan O]

The cap badge came with lugs (Pic 1-2) and later sliders.

Widely faked and I would always look out for a die struck badge with brasing holes behind the pennants and numeral. There was not an all brass version but they have been faked.
The addition of brass rods to the back of the lancers appears to be a common practice to embellish fakes.

Faked in all brass (3-4) and also there is an early flat backed cast fake. (5-6)

[Alan O]

6th Inniskilling Dragoons wore the castle badge on lugs and then a slider. (Pic 1-4) It was amalgamated with 5th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) Dragoon Guards to form 5th/6th Dragoons in 1922. The regiment's junior Squadron wore the 6th insignia until the late 20's.

As well as the fake brass one (Pics 5-6) a fantasy w/m badge on lugs has been made.

The MM catalogue fakes are easy to spot as they lack brasing holes, the tower windows are unvoided (but occasionally both brasing holes and windows have been drilled out by crooked dealers) and there is an extra row of blocks above the central tower's windows. (7-10)

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

6th Inniskilling Dragoons wore the castle badge on lugs and then a slider. (Pic 1-4) It was amalgamated with 5th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) Dragoon Guards to form 5th/6th Dragoons in 1922. The regiment's junior Squadron wore the 6th insignia until the late 20's.

There was not a 1916 version although they have been faked. As well as the fake brass one (Pics 5-6) a fantasy w/m badge on lugs has been made.

The MM catalogue fakes are easy to spot as they lack brasing holes, the tower windows are unvoided (but occasionally both brasing holes and windows have been drilled out by crooked dealers) and there is an extra row of blocks above the central tower's windows. (7-10)

There was a 1916 GM version. SP 4692A/1916 and 2,000 were ordered in April 1916.

My two examples below.

[Alan O]

That's interesting. I did not see that on Julians list.

[Alan O]

The 7th Hussars was a QVC version on lugs (Pic 1-2) and a KC version (3-4). Due to the complex cypher, a 1916 economy version was made and is the most common cavalry economy badge (5-6). A common badge and I would always look for the brasing holes on the reverse of a die struck badge.

Widely faked in bi-m, all brass, QVC, KC and QC. (7-16)

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Alan O

That's interesting. I did not see that on Julians list.

The Bulletin of the Military historical Society

Volume 66, No.262, November 2015

Pages 82 an 83

[Alan O]

8th KRIH had a QVC badge with lugs (pic 1-2) and a KC. Both my examples have a brasing hole behind the crown. (pic 3-4)

The ORs were not wearing a QC badge at amalgamation and no a/a badge was made. QC BM are available but are fakes imo rather than unissued stock. (5-6)

The QVC badge (Pic 7-8) and KC (9-10) are fake imo.

The all brass version comes with QVC and KC (11-12) and are fakes as there was not an all brass version.

[Alan O]

The 9th Lancers wore a QVC with 4 lugs. (Pic 1)

Interestingly the IWM have a badge with a long 1903 slider from the Brodrick hat era. (Pic 2-3) Just like the 7th DG converted for Brodricks, the remains of braise for the 4 lugs can be seen.

The KC version was also slidered and worn in both wars and up to amalgamation so there are several dies.

There was no all brass version.

A Q/C was made with a distinctive strengthener just before amalgamation.

John Gaylor commissioned an a/a version.

Unfortunately as there are several genuine dies and with the single metal construction, being certain a badge is genuine is tricky. As it's an attractive badge it has been widely copied far more than many other cavalry badges.

A MM Catalogue version exists (4-5) with JR Gaunt.London mark and both die-struck and cast fakes exist. 6-7 is one of the fake QC versions. 8-9 is the 1970s Gaunt Bham badges.

The badge can be found with stengthening rods which have been occasionally faked with thick brass rods.

[Gary B]

...well that's thinned my collection out a bit!

Gary B

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

First issued with QVC with lugs (Pic 1-2) and later a KC with a slider. Worn after amalgamation until circa 1929 when the VDG white metal cap badge was introduced.

The originals all have the centre inset so the w/m circle is viewable from the reverse.

There are both QVC (3-4) and KC fakes and these tend to have overlaid centres and a modern font.

There was a 1916 Economy cap badge on a slider. (5-6) This was the only Dragoon Guards regiment to have an economy.

This is not true.

The 5th Dragoon Guards was not authorised in 1916 for production in all GM.

Only five cavalry regiments had badges authorised for production in all GM:

1st Kings Dragoon Guards
6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons
8th Hussars
10th Hussars
16th Lancers

I do not doubt the GM 5DG badge shown is genuine but it is not an authorised 1916 all GM issue. What it is is open to debate.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Gary B

...well that's thinned my collection out a bit!

Gary B

I would be wary of discarding or accepting badges based solely on this thread.

Without wishing to cause any offence it is far from comprehensive and in some places not entirely accurate in painting a picture of repros or genuine badges out there for each regiment.

[Alan O]

Luke

It's a guide to help not a definitive list because fakery is just too widespread and has been going on for 50 years. Feel free to write a thread yourself and I am sure the membership would welcome your assistance.

There are more genuine badge dies than I show but there are also more fake dies than I can show.
Alan