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  #1  
Old 17-03-10, 04:13 PM
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Default Scottish Light Dragoons badge

As many of you know I am a Naval collector, but I got this cap badge(?) among other items, recently, with a QSA medal.

I dont know Canadian Militia badges, & I dont know if this badge is good or a repro, but it sure looks recent to me.

Can anyone ID it or give me any info on it? & what kind of crown is that?

The man was from Montreal, & he served in the First Prince of Wales Reg't Fusiiliers until approx 1905.

The lettering on the badge reads:

13TH SCOTTISH LIGHT DRAGOONS, & below that, CANADA

thanks,

Bryan
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File Type: jpg Scottish Lt Dragoons cap b.jpg (95.0 KB, 84 views)
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  #2  
Old 17-03-10, 04:44 PM
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Hi Bryan, An image of the reverse please.
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  #3  
Old 17-03-10, 04:53 PM
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Here's something Bryan to start with.
13th Scottish Light Dragoons.
14 Sep 1866 - 1 Feb 1936
Disbanded at Waterloo, Quebec
This regiment originated in the 52nd Bedford Battalion of Infantry at Knowlton, Quebec. It was renamed the 52nd Brome Battalion in 1872 and was amalgamated into the the 79th Shefford Regiment to form the 79th Shefford and Brome Regiment. This unit was converted to cavalry 1 Feb 1904 and renamed the 13th Scottish Light Dragoons.

I was told that this unit was a "paper unit" only (like the Canadian Irish Rangers). I always wanted to have one in the 1980's and I could never find one.One, IMO of the most difficult to find.
Lucky you.
Jo
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  #4  
Old 17-03-10, 06:04 PM
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Bryan,

Nice find! Looks like you've got a gilding metal OR's badge to the 13th SLD. This is a rarer piece, & one worth quite a few bucks.

You can see the makers mark in your picture, on the front of the badge near the bottom of the shield - PW ELLIS & CO. If you turn it over I'm guessing it's fully struck up with flat 'Canadian style' lugs. There may be a date near the top of the shield (on the reverse side) - 1910 perhaps?

Mazeas indicates these were worn as both a cap & collars. Officers patterns exist in gilt & OSD bronze, & I have a photo of a bullion badge. A slightly larger badge in white metal was used as the helmet plate centre.
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Old 19-03-10, 01:18 PM
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Many thanks for info mates, appreciate that, more below.......
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  #6  
Old 19-03-10, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug N View Post
Bryan,

Nice find! Looks like you've got a gilding metal OR's badge to the 13th SLD. This is a rarer piece, & one worth quite a few bucks.

You can see the makers mark in your picture, on the front of the badge near the bottom of the shield - PW ELLIS & CO. If you turn it over I'm guessing it's fully struck up with flat 'Canadian style' lugs. There may be a date near the top of the shield (on the reverse side) - 1910 perhaps?

Mazeas indicates these were worn as both a cap & collars. Officers patterns exist in gilt & OSD bronze, & I have a photo of a bullion badge. A slightly larger badge in white metal was used as the helmet plate centre.
By George you are right Doug!

I never noticed that, but my knowledge of Candanian Militia badges is shaky at best as way out of my field.

& the year 1910 is embossed on the reverse exactly where you say it is supposed to be! Never seen that before. I can also just barely make out the reverse of the ELLIS marking on the rev bottom of the boar's head(?) on the shield also.

I thought this badge was a modern 1960's style repro as it looks like the Militia badges produced during that time frame.

Can you tell me why that weird crown??? Why not the King Edward crown??

Bryan
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  #7  
Old 19-03-10, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltigeur View Post
Here's something Bryan to start with.
13th Scottish Light Dragoons.
14 Sep 1866 - 1 Feb 1936
Disbanded at Waterloo, Quebec
This regiment originated in the 52nd Bedford Battalion of Infantry at Knowlton, Quebec. It was renamed the 52nd Brome Battalion in 1872 and was amalgamated into the the 79th Shefford Regiment to form the 79th Shefford and Brome Regiment. This unit was converted to cavalry 1 Feb 1904 and renamed the 13th Scottish Light Dragoons.

I was told that this unit was a "paper unit" only (like the Canadian Irish Rangers). I always wanted to have one in the 1980's and I could never find one.One, IMO of the most difficult to find.
Lucky you.
Jo

Thanks Jo, I appreciate that history very much. The man who's badge this was - or at least I am assuming (& we all know that assumption is the "mother of all f+++ ups") it was his, as it came with original paperwork {which is what attracted me as I like original documentation} & his QSA medal - he was in First Prince of Wales Regiment Fusiliers May ''99 to Nov '02, then again May '04 till Jun '05.

Would this unit have worn this cap badge?

& what exactly is a "paper unit"??

Bryan

Last edited by RCN; 19-03-10 at 01:36 PM.
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  #8  
Old 19-03-10, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
Hi Bryan, An image of the reverse please.
The picture of the badge above was scanned, scanner cannot photo reverse in focus due to lugs, but I have taken a few more photos of the badge, trying to pick up some of the detail mentioned, & the flat lugs, & will post when I get them downloaded later today,

Bryan
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  #9  
Old 19-03-10, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCN View Post
Thanks Jo, I appreciate that history very much. The man who's badge this was - or at least I am assuming (& we all know that assumption is the "mother of all f+++ ups") it was his, as it came with original paperwork {which is what attracted me as I like original documentation} & his QSA medal - he was in First Prince of Wales Regiment Fusiliers May ''99 to Nov '02, then again May '04 till Jun '05.

Would this unit have worn this cap badge?

& what exactly is a "paper unit"??

Bryan
Hello Bryan, a "paper Unit"(13th SLD & 55th Irish-Canadian Rangers,disb.1936) the way it was explained to me, is a unit that was on the roll of the Canadian Militia in old day but, had no officers and no other ranks listed (and no armoury???).It was a unit kept in case there was a war and had to be raised in a hurry, something similar to the canadian supplementary order of battle. But hey, I could also have been misled about this explanation.
As to know if the unit wore this cap badge.......well I guess they would but on what kind of cap ????
Cheers
Jo
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  #10  
Old 19-03-10, 05:36 PM
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Default 13th Scottish Light Dragoons badge

Here is some reverse photos of the Scottish Light Dragoons badge......

the 1910 is quite clear on the rev.

{Just got a new camera & first time I have tried the macro setting, so need more practice......obviously}

Bryan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Scott drag 1910.jpg (70.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Scott Drag 1910 2.jpg (70.3 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg Scott Drag rev.jpg (63.9 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg Scott Drag lugs.jpg (30.8 KB, 39 views)
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  #11  
Old 19-03-10, 07:42 PM
Wyn vdSchee Wyn vdSchee is offline
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Default 13th Scottish Light Dragoons

For Voltigeur and RCN,
The 13th Scottish Light Dragoons was active at least until 1931; that is it appeared in Militia Lists with officers posted to all three squadrons plus the headquarters. It was officially disbanded some time circa 1935-36. The other cavalry regiment in the area, The Eastern Townships Mounted Rifles, was converted to artillery on 15 Dec 1936.
Wyn
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  #12  
Old 19-03-10, 08:08 PM
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Thanks Wyn.

Jo
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." -

“There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.”
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  #13  
Old 19-03-10, 08:16 PM
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Nice, scarce badge Bryan.
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  #14  
Old 19-03-10, 10:54 PM
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Can some one tell me why that weird crown??? & what kind of crown is this?? is it typical of badges of the period??

Why not the King Edward crown??

Bryan
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  #15  
Old 19-07-14, 10:36 PM
Seathanaich Seathanaich is offline
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Default 13th Scottish Light Dragoons

Nobody answered Bryan's question; but the reason for that crown appears to be that the entire design has been borrowed from somebody's (or some city's) coat of arms. Probably some Scottish lord. There are a few oddball crowns in Canadian militaria, and this is one of them.

About 5 years ago I bought a large lot of Canadian badges for about $700. All had had their lugs removed, by one of these morons who then glues them to display them. In this group were a LOT of otherwise quite valuable badges (Argyll Light Infantry flat back officer cap badge for example, off the top of my head), including this Officer Service Dress Bronze cap/collar for the 13th Scottish Light Dragoons.

However, another interesting find of mine was a pair of brass shoulder titles spelling "13 DRAGOONS" - one of them is pictured. I have tried to find another regiment anywhere in the British Empire that was both "13th" and "Dragoons", without success. The UK, South Africa, India, Australia, New Zealand - nobody except Canada had a 13th Dragoons.

Interesting, no?
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File Type: jpg 100_1946.jpg (85.0 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg 100_1947.jpg (79.5 KB, 25 views)
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