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  #1  
Old 09-11-18, 06:17 PM
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Default Parachute Regiment battledress tunic

I acquired this BD tunic in the mid-1980s, from a branch of the Parachute Regiment & Airborne Forces Association, who were selling items from veterans as a means of fundraising.

The BD tunic itself is South African made and looks to be dated 1945.

I would particularly appreciate members views on the insignia. At the time that I acquired it, I certainly did not question authenticity, given the source. Also, wonderful resources like this forum were not yet available to check on what to look for. The tunic has been in storage for some years while I was living overseas and is now 'seeing the light of day' once more.

The shoulder titles are of the early 'Parachute' variety, so would actually pre-date the tunic. However, one can see the remnants of previous stitching, which would be consistent with having been removed from one BD tunic and transferred onto this one. I think that South African made BD was preferable to British made BD (as was Canadian and US made BD) and I could imagine a soldier transferring insignia across on acquiring a much nicer BD tunic.

What is raising questions for me are the Pegasus patches. These are printed, but are not exactly the same as others that I know to be genuine. For example, the detail of Bellerophon's helmet - with the individual dots rather than less well defined 'line'.

Anyway, it would be great to get some insights!
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  #2  
Old 09-11-18, 07:02 PM
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Sorry to say that I don't think the pegasus patches are real, not a fan of the wings, nor the para titles but I am not so familiar with them so I could be wrong.
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  #3  
Old 09-11-18, 08:51 PM
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Default Parachute Regiment -battledress tunic

Hello Doug,
Not being an expert, am certainly not in a position to render definitive judgement. However on the Pegasus formation badges please observe the direction of the weave (diagonally down from right to left). Don't know exactly why but believe the "convention" is diagonally down from left to right.You may want to glance at the following two articles from my blog page which may prove helpful. See; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2017/1...aria-wwii.html
and http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2016/0...-regiment.html.
Best regards,
Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory
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  #4  
Old 10-11-18, 05:58 PM
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Thank you for your insights! I would rather know what the 'issues' are and to learn from these.

I will take a closer look at the BD and insignia, to see if anything more is revealed.

Unfortunately, even if there are issues, I cannot go back to the seller, as I acquired it more than 30 years ago!
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  #5  
Old 10-11-18, 09:23 PM
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Doug, you are right about non british BD tunics being preferred for walking out uniforms. Canadian made BD blouses were particularly popular amongst British soldiers.

I'm afraid Jerry is correct about the insignia not being genuine: it is quite obvious for the Pegasus patches as you suspected. You can find numerous examples of originals on this forum (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=64777)
As for the titles, they look suspicious. The correct version is more curved and the font usually thicker (see photos).
Hard to form an opinion on the wings as they have been whitened (popular arrangement for a best BD). I don't like the L/Cpl chevron which should be more brownish in my view.

Sorry about the bad news.
Cheers
Pierre
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File Type: jpg Pair Parachute Titles F.jpg (45.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Title Closeup.jpg (90.9 KB, 23 views)
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  #6  
Old 11-11-18, 10:24 AM
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Thank you for the additional insights and opinions Pierre!

I am fully convinced that the Pegasus patches are repro.

They were apparently sewn onto the BD tunic at the same time as the shoulder titles, as the same stitching was used. Although the titles do have residual machine(?) stitching in a different colour, presumably from wherever the titles were used before. It would be interesting to see the back of them.

Regarding the wings and chevrons, I think that they may well be genuine. Again, whitening was applied to the chevrons, as well as the parachute on the wings.

Anyway, I shall now have to decide what to do with the lot. Certainly, I would not want to either throw it in the bin or to off it load someone else as a genuine BD for Parachute Regiment. Currently considering removing insignia and selling the South African BD.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-18, 03:07 PM
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Okay, given that the Pegasus patches were definitely fake and apparently sewn on at the same time as the Parachute shoulder titles, I have removed these from the BD tunic.

I would be grateful if knowledgeable members could look at the new photos of the back and front of the shoulder titles, for fresh insights.

Also, I have attached new close-up photos of the wings. Again further insights and opinions would be appreciated.
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  #8  
Old 11-11-18, 03:43 PM
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I have not seen the paper backing on a set of Parachute Regiment titles of that style. The lettering looks ok is slightly different than what I am used to.

Conventional wisdom has the wings post-war because of the diagonal stitching on the wings.

I could be wrong but this is my opinion.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-18, 06:42 PM
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Doug, this must have been a big decision to remove the titles from the blouse.
Now that we can see their back, I'm wondering if they were not private purchased titles. I've never seen this type before. Ordnance-produced example are usually showing glue at the back.
As for the wings, I disagree with William. They look fine. I've attached a photo of the wings worn by Private Stack (source Pegasus Bridge Museum O. Lock's book). They look identical.
Really hard to form a definitive judgement on the tunic's authenticity.
Out of curiosity, can you post a photo of the Pegasus back?
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  #10  
Old 11-11-18, 06:55 PM
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Yes indeed, it was not an easy decision to remove the titles from the BD blouse. It is certainly not something that I would normally do. However, given that they were apparently sewn on at the same time as the (fake) set of Pegasus patches - so evidently not on the original BD blouse - and that their authenticity was also in question, I thought it worthwhile.

I am still sure that the Pegasus patches are fake. I shall post some pics of the back of them, although this may only be tomorrow.

I have not removed the wings or the chevrons from the BD blouse, as do not want to be hasty.

Regarding the BD blouse itself, with which there are also trousers, I have no doubt that they are original wartime South African issue.

I should mention that I have been advised by a respected member of this forum - since posting this thread - that the seller did sometimes make available 'made up' BD blouses, which could have a mix of original and fake insignia. Certainly, the seller was able to source original insignia, but it is a pity that he seemingly felt it necessary to engage in the dodgy practice of 'making up' BD blouses. Although not dissimilar from the practice of producing FS fighting knives mixing genuine and fake parts.

Last edited by DougSA; 11-11-18 at 07:10 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-18, 11:55 AM
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Herewith pics of the front and back of the repro Pegasus patches, as requested.

Also, again the Parachute shoulder titles, as I would still be grateful for additional insights and opinions of other knowledgeable members.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-18, 05:22 PM
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As s former collector of Parachute insignia I would not be happy with any of the insignia but the pegasus are guaranteed copies they are from the 1980's " Find " supposedly found in a loft at Cattrick cap.

They are really easy to spot as they are like paint printed if you bend them in half the blue pegasus starts to peel and even after they have been worked on they still retain a certain stiffness that is not found on originals .

As time permits I recommend you study every tbing u can on the prossess used to make printed insigia once you study this spoting fakes becomes so much easier.

an please dont read too much in to how the sloping weave on parachute jump wings defines them post war this is a dangerous path to follow I have seen many war time manufactured wings condemned as post war becaused of a slight angle to the feathers.

Despite what has been discussed on here using tbe angle of the feathers is not an acurate method of judging age of manufacture .
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  #13  
Old 12-11-18, 11:21 PM
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Wings good, titles and Pegasus bad.
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Old 13-11-18, 08:21 AM
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"Found" in a loft at Cattrick cap?
Assume you mean Catterick garrison, but, found by who, I wonder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEMO View Post
As s former collector of Parachute insignia I would not be happy with any of the insignia but the pegasus are guaranteed copies they are from the 1980's " Find " supposedly found in a loft at Cattrick cap.

They are really easy to spot as they are like paint printed if you bend them in half the blue pegasus starts to peel and even after they have been worked on they still retain a certain stiffness that is not found on originals .

As time permits I recommend you study every tbing u can on the prossess used to make printed insigia once you study this spoting fakes becomes so much easier.

an please dont read too much in to how the sloping weave on parachute jump wings defines them post war this is a dangerous path to follow I have seen many war time manufactured wings condemned as post war becaused of a slight angle to the feathers.

Despite what has been discussed on here using tbe angle of the feathers is not an acurate method of judging age of manufacture .
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  #15  
Old 13-11-18, 10:28 AM
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Yes camp ! they were every where up here in the North of England " found in a roof space " during rebuilding....... bo#$ks !
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