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  #1  
Old 17-11-18, 12:14 PM
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irishhorse irishhorse is offline
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Default Royal Rifles Reserve Regiment ?

Not sure if the badge is to the above regiment or not. Approx size 58mm x 40mm. K&K 1129 says bronze for officers. And blackened brass for other-ranks. This one is gilt. Note I probably will move this one on.
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  #2  
Old 17-11-18, 12:53 PM
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I don’t think so. I’ve attached a pic from the badge shown in K&K and also tried to desaturate the image. Note the mouthpiece appears to be longer and thinner.

From all my searching I’ve onky ever found one badge that appears to be from the same die as the one shown in K&K. Curiously that badge is in WM but may have been blackened.

I’ll post a link shortly if I can find the thread.

Some months ago I bought an identically proportioned French Horn from Deadspartan hoping it was a RR. It was GM but may have been blackened at some point and measures 38mm x 60mm. It was described as a ‘Rifle Brigade Victorian OR’s shako badge’.
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  #3  
Old 17-11-18, 05:46 PM
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Thanks Luke. Had another look through K&K. The shape of the bugle horn looks very similar to KK534. With out the numeral.
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  #4  
Old 18-11-18, 06:55 AM
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I have seen this badge described as Boer War period Reserve Regiment but I can't confirm anything. I would be very interested to see a set or group of all the varieties like the large thistle and the monogram series (Dragoon Gds etc).
All I know is that a brass oxy 40mm badge was worn by Infantry of the colony of Victoria, and a smaller WM 32mm type by NSW Inf, who also wore them with the numerals 1-4 in the centre.
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  #5  
Old 18-11-18, 09:17 AM
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Hi all

interesting thread. I will throw this one into the mix, similar, but I don't think the same as the KK one. What do you think? Like you, Luke, I got it thinking it was Reserve Regiment, but I guess it may be hard to prove either way.

It does have very similar lugs to the Irish Fusiliers RR (same design, and one larger than the other), so maybe?

I will post some pictures of the lugs on a few different RR badges I have which I am reasonably confident are OK,(famous last words...) later today or tomorrow.

Cheers, Tim
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  #6  
Old 18-11-18, 09:18 AM
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Red face

forgot the picture
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  #7  
Old 18-11-18, 02:55 PM
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Hi Tim,

The general shape/proportions look very close to the K&K badge but as you say it’s not quite the same. The band nearest the mouthpiece is a line of dots on yours whereas on the K&K badge it’s a solid band.

If I recall correctly the badge shown in first edition Gaylor is very different and similar to the badge in the opening post.

There’s not much, if any, literature to these regiments out there. Who’s to say which one, if either are right between K&K and Gaylor. Similarly who’s to say various blackened bugles weren’t used?

Here is the WM badge I was talking about. I couldn’t find the thread despite looking for over an hour. Hopefully the owner of the image doesn’t mind, if they do I will of course take it down. This badge ‘appears’ to be from the same die as the K&K one.

If someone on the forum does own a badge to this regiment I’d love to see it.

Cheers,

Luke
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Last edited by Luke H; 18-11-18 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #8  
Old 19-11-18, 07:51 AM
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I have quite a few varieties of both the coiled bugle (also the slung bugle badges), worn by various rifle regiments around the empire. Apart from the 1 - 4 numbered (coiled) NSW Inf it is now impossible to tell which regiment wore which variety. There are a smaller facing pair of collar badges, and an extra large pouch badge, others worn on pouches with separate crown or in the centre of a HP.
I have often thought I might one day attempt to put them in a Forum album but have never worked out how. I have pictures already of a lot of them.
I have no idea, as I wrote before, whether one of them might be a Reserve rgt.
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  #9  
Old 19-11-18, 09:42 AM
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Are these of any relevance to the discussion?

Yellow metal (possibly originally bronzed or blackened), about 65 X 45mm. Looks like the badges shown as KK1129 and in post no. 2. The bottom of the badge looks wider than it should as someone's flattened it a bit by knocking a hole through it.

A silver gilt finish, about 65 X 50mm

Crowned, bronze finish, about 46 X 46mm.
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Last edited by leigh kitchen; 19-11-18 at 09:50 AM.
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  #10  
Old 19-11-18, 12:41 PM
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Hi Leigh,

nothing is irrelevant to this, I don't think. It reminded me that the bugle comes in so many designs and sizes it is probably impossible to categorically say who wore the simple pattern this thread is about, as this thread has demonstrated, apart from the UK, Australia also used the design.

It is conceivable, also, given the different regiments who had a bugle design for, or in, their cap/collar/pouch etc, that there was more than one maker of the Reserve Regiment badges. The Nick Metcalf website says there were 24,000 odd signed up as a whole, and 2 battalions of those were Rifles, so maybe 1500/2000 troops?

I have attached 4 examples where the basic design is similar, but the detail different on all 4, just by way of interest.

As for Reserve Regiment, maybe the answer lies on the back. The second picture are badges I own, namely: Irish RR, Scottish RR and Rifles RR. All have similar loops, and all are well constructed, as you would expect from Victorian times.

What does that mean? Maybe not a lot, but while we cannot definitively say any of these are Rifles RR, we also cannot say they are not. I would say, if it's the right size (ie it seems 60mm x 40mm is about right - remembering if there was more than one maker, we should have a tolerance to those measurements) and the fixings are done to a Victorian standard, then it's possible.

Thoughts?

Cheers, Tim

PS, i forgot to say, the first one you have, Leigh, looks interesting, it certainly has been over loved, or is it under loved? but where the loops seem to have been placed is consistent with the one I have, and the size difference may be a function of it being bashed up.
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  #11  
Old 19-11-18, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Are these of any relevance to the discussion?

Yellow metal (possibly originally bronzed or blackened), about 65 X 45mm. Looks like the badges shown as KK1129 and in post no. 2. The bottom of the badge looks wider than it should as someone's flattened it a bit by knocking a hole through it.

A silver gilt finish, about 65 X 50mm

Crowned, bronze finish, about 46 X 46mm.
That’s amazing Leigh, thanks for showing it looks a dead ringer to me. Exactly the badge I’d go for, made my evening thank you.

Is it my eyes but I can’t see any loops? Are they there or if not can you tell where they would’ve been?
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  #12  
Old 19-11-18, 10:46 PM
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Hi Tim,

Thanks for mentioning the website. I did not know of this article.

Here’s the link for others...

https://www.nickmetcalfe.co.uk/the-r...ison-regiment/

Without wishing to stray off topic I had no idea there were Northern, Southern and Eastern RRs. But this may explain why the royal coat of arms badge is relatively common compared to the rest.

My take on it (for what it’s worth) is there appears to be only one maker/die for the Scottish RR, Irish Fus RR and Home Counties RR OR badges, so, I would assume a bespoke die/badge existed for the Rifles RR too (likely the badge shown by K&K and Leigh’s brass badge). But as to what was actually worn i.e. other bugles utilised, who knows or can say for certain nearly 120 years on.

I wholeheartedly agree with your observations on the quality of the badges, Victorian craftsmanship and manufacture at its best.

Personally I will be eagerly on the look out for a badge like Leigh’s.

Cheers,

Luke

Last edited by Luke H; 19-11-18 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #13  
Old 19-11-18, 11:24 PM
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Here's my one, I've never considered it to be anything other than a generic RV's shako, glengarry or pouch badge.
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  #14  
Old 20-11-18, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
That’s amazing Leigh, thanks for showing it looks a dead ringer to me. Exactly the badge I’d go for, made my evening thank you.

Is it my eyes but I can’t see any loops? Are they there or if not can you tell where they would’ve been?

Here are images of the sites of the two loops,
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  #15  
Old 20-11-18, 09:23 AM
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Hi Luke,

you know, I think you are onto it. Your take on this is a sensible one, and I confess, I didn't look closely enough at Leigh's badge against the KK one. I think while it is entirely plausible individuals had badges made or used from other sources, the design Leigh (and now Keith!) have, are the ones we should be looking for.

Keith, that does looks (to me) to be a match to the KK version. I can't quite tell, is it WM? or is that just patina/blackening on GM?

Cheers, Tim
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