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  #1  
Old 19-08-23, 10:13 AM
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Milmed Milmed is offline
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Default Mixed lot from same family

I got these recently from a friend who got them from together from a family clear out and I have a few questions around timelines that I hope can be answered:

1. Is the HM Transport cap badge WWI or was it also used in WWII?
2. What was the difference between HM Transport and RN Transport?
3. The shoulder boards have a purple velvet backing to the gold braid. I believe the rank is that of an uncertificated junior engineer, but the buttons appear to be for harbour services. Does this look correct?

The other badge is a post 1961 ratings cap badge for the South African Railways & Harbours.

Regards
Steven
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  #2  
Old 19-08-23, 03:11 PM
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These are late WW1 era. I think HM Transport was civilian whereas RN Transport was Navy.

CB
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  #3  
Old 20-08-23, 07:53 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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The buttons are just generic Merchant Navy buttons.
Cheers,
Alex
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Old 20-08-23, 11:16 AM
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Thanks Alex, I was referring to the buttons on the shoulder boards.

The loose ones are generic MN ones
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Old 20-08-23, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
These are late WW1 era. I think HM Transport was civilian whereas RN Transport was Navy.

CB
Thanks CB
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  #6  
Old 20-08-23, 12:07 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Thanks Alex, I was referring to the buttons on the shoulder boards.

The loose ones are generic MN ones
Hi Steven
Oh yes, misread the post. Harbour services as you say.
Cheers,
Alex
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  #7  
Old 20-08-23, 04:53 PM
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So the question then is... does harbour services wear Merchant Navy shoulder boards?
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Old 20-08-23, 05:04 PM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Can you please provide a clearer photo of thebuttons on the shoulder boards.
Thanks
Barry
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  #9  
Old 20-08-23, 05:42 PM
conservator conservator is offline
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These shoulder boards are not standard Board of Trade pattern items and I suspect they are unique to the SA Harbour Services.
The 'standard' MN boards for this engineering rank have the purple backing follow, exactly, the path of the gold braid; where the braid drops to form the
'V' in the centre, so the purple backing follows.
Your boards show a purple horizontal band on to which the braid has been stitched centrally at either end but do not conform to the standard pattern in the centre.
I've seen plenty of 4th Eng ranks, sleeve and shoulder, but not this one; it's certainly not common (in the UK at least) and worthy of further research.
George
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Old 21-08-23, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbroadarrowz View Post
Can you please provide a clearer photo of thebuttons on the shoulder boards.
Thanks
Barry
Photo attached
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  #11  
Old 21-08-23, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conservator View Post
These shoulder boards are not standard Board of Trade pattern items and I suspect they are unique to the SA Harbour Services.
The 'standard' MN boards for this engineering rank have the purple backing follow, exactly, the path of the gold braid; where the braid drops to form the
'V' in the centre, so the purple backing follows.
Your boards show a purple horizontal band on to which the braid has been stitched centrally at either end but do not conform to the standard pattern in the centre.
I've seen plenty of 4th Eng ranks, sleeve and shoulder, but not this one; it's certainly not common (in the UK at least) and worthy of further research.
George
Thanks George,
Great observation and I see what you are referring to. I simply went by the pattern of the braid and the purple backing to come to my incorrect conclusion.
So the buttons could well be correct for the boards and they are not related to the HM Transport badge in the group.
Will need to investigate SA Harbour Services to see if I can find a match. The buttons do represent a period pre 1961 in South Africa.

Regards
Steven
Steven
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  #12  
Old 21-08-23, 06:10 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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I would have thought that they were rather later, in particular, the officers cap badge, with it's blue central jewel to the Tudor crown.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
These are late WW1 era. I think HM Transport was civilian whereas RN Transport was Navy.

CB
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  #13  
Old 21-08-23, 11:50 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Judging badges by the central jewel alone is misleading as
Some badge maker's did make badges with the correct sequence of jewels in the pre 1921 period.
Barry
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