British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Canadian Military Insignia > Corps, Branches and the Royal Canadian Artillery

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30-09-16, 11:40 AM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Canadian Artillery Badges - Family

Ladies & Gents,
Would appreciate your learned opinions on these, i have checked the forums albums but didn't realise the minor differences in each badge, I've seen a couple similar but not my area of expertise. So what am i hoping for, i would like to attribute these to members of the family:

1) Lt, Cdn Arty WW1, served imperial artillery before for 2 years
2) BQMS, Cdn Arty WW1, served imperial artillery before for 22 years
3) Cpl, Cdn Arty, WW2, did spend time in UK.

Firstly do the badges 'fit', they have come from across the family.
Secondly, which is which?

Many thanks - Mark

P1030702.JPG

Attachment 156888

P1030700.JPG

Attachment 156890

P1030699.JPG

Attachment 156893
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30-09-16, 12:01 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Hi Mark, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.
If I understand your request, you are not certain which badge belongs to which member of the family?
First, the bottom badge appears to have a moving wheel? If so, the moving wheel type are attributed to officers or senior nco's, though it is not uncommon for a gunner to acquire one.
The service careers of the two CFA veterans would, if they had only served in the Canadian artillery be represented by badges with CANADA in the top banner. However with the two soldiers having had imperial service, they may have continued to wear their badge from that service.
Other members will weigh in with their observations.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30-09-16, 12:10 PM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill,
Many thanks for the reply, yes that is my dilemma, i have seen the Canada ones, there certainly isn't one in the family, Canada is however on one set of Buttons (manufactured by Scully, Montreal) i have, which also has collars of a British appearance. Please see photo's of the reverses. Any opinions gratefully received. Mark
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030703.JPG (103.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg P1030701.JPG (106.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg P1030698.JPG (105.9 KB, 21 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30-09-16, 01:05 PM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bill,
Many thanks for the reply, yes you see my dilemma, i was aware of the Canada titles, but unsure when they came in, or did they retain earlier badges. I didn't notice the moving wheel but yes it has, bit stiff, only moved after a bit of pressure. I do have Canadian Officer buttons made by Scully, Montreal and two collars which look like normal ones, two types of CFA titles. Rears of badges below, any info gratefully received.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030703.JPG (103.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg P1030701.JPG (106.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg P1030698.JPG (105.9 KB, 7 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-09-16, 01:44 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Mark, is it possible the badges are all from one of the fellow's service?
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-09-16, 02:27 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Mark,

The soldier of WW1 would not have worn one of those badges.
The CANADA top banner was retained until 1926.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-09-16, 02:37 PM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Bill,
these are separate guys, as indicated, these from family in Canada. i have acquired a couple of bits, please see below for my start point, these are just the Canadians, i am trying to produce a display of the family's military history, just want it to be right, however it might get a bit big!
Regards Mark
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030704.JPG (99.1 KB, 58 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30-09-16, 02:42 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Mark,

Any makers marks and dates on the rear of the CFA shoulder titles?

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-09-16, 02:54 PM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Simon,
Two appear to have Tiptaft?
The others Roden?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030710.JPG (105.8 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg P1030708.JPG (102.0 KB, 12 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-09-16, 03:11 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

And a Birks 1917.

All WW1.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30-09-16, 03:14 PM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Simon,
Got me looking for makers marks now!
Nothing on the collars, or pips, are they Brit/Canadian ones?
Pictures attached - thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030724.JPG (103.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg P1030718.JPG (104.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg P1030715.JPG (105.4 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg P1030716.JPG (103.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg P1030714.JPG (106.5 KB, 7 views)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30-09-16, 08:22 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

No way to tell.
Probably JR Gaunt, Montreal or London.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30-09-16, 09:05 PM
fougasse1940's Avatar
fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,206
Default

The smaller of the three Artillery cap badges is a post WWII beret badge, at least in the UK, don't know about Canada but I suppose theirs developed along similar lines.
The badge with the additional wheel is not supposed to move, the 'moving wheel' description stems from collectors, and it'll only start to move after much wear and tear, for instance from excessive polishing or rough handling, the official name is 'applied wheel' and supposed to suggest depth of field perspective as when a real gun is viewed sideways. Would be a waste to damage the badge getting it to move and break the wheel off after all these years!

Rgds, Thomas.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-10-16, 11:18 AM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Morning,
Some additional information. The Royal Canadian Artillery (the permanent force) were authorized their Ubique pattern badge in 1927, while the Canadian Field Artillery continued to wear the Canada banner badge until they were re-designated as a component of the RCA in 1936.
In the case of Mark's family, the gunners with British service may have continued to wear their imperial pattern badge when they joined the CFA. It would have been seen as a mark of pride and experience. There is a lot of discussion in archives records about the correct type of badges to be worn by the CFA batteries of the CEF, but most of that revolved around the question of numbered battery badges.
The collars are officers pattern. Other ranks in the CFA wore either the maple leaf GL pattern, or a maple leaf with a field gun imposed, or small plain grenades.
Thank-you for the information about the gun badge Thomas. The Canadian army authorized a smaller gun badge circa 1950 for wear on the beret, but it is much different than the ones illustrated.
Mark, what size are the gun badges that are imaged?
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-10-16, 11:46 AM
MarkGD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the info, if these are not issued i'm getting more mindful that they acquired them there was a military tailor in the family. Not sure if it was the same then as now, an officer gets an allowance whereby an OR's gets issued kit. I found out yesterday the BQMS did end up as a BSM which put a smile on my face. Please see the attached for dimensions which hopefully helps, the middle badge appears smaller, this is the one i think was the Officers as it is slightly shaped as per a service cap, however it could be that of an 'old sweat', both the Lt and BQMS were still serving in the UK Artillery in 1912 & 1907 respectively. Regards Mark
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1030727.JPG (83.7 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
artillery, canadian, gunners, ww1, ww2

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:52 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.