British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-02-20, 04:02 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 3,249
Default Modern West Riding by Firmin

Does anyone have any information on this badge please?

It seems relatively modern and normally I’d be inclined to condemn it as fake. However the finish from the front looks pretty good quality and it also has a Firmin mark embossed onto the reverse of the scroll as well stamped in the slider. The construction reminds me a bit of Birmingham mint.

Why it has a officer’s quality finish to the front and is on a slider is odd. The embossed makers mark is not something I’m familiar with on fakes, albeit I don’t collect officers badges so have limited experience.

So is it a more modern variant or just another repo?

Please note if this is good I’ll likely move it on.

Cheers,

Luke
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6A5F47E7-A26E-4D28-86DF-161994A54EDD.jpg (88.9 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 9B5C4289-2925-4C50-96CA-46867B6EC7CF.jpg (114.0 KB, 100 views)
File Type: jpg DF54E92C-95A8-4233-B9F9-2767173988E0.jpg (96.1 KB, 69 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-02-20, 04:24 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,488
Default

Luke,
DWR was not in the Birmingham Mint set so I think that can be ruled out. It is possible that it is an officer badge, even with a slider, either issue or from PRI or military tailor. I think that I may have a similar one so will check now.

Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-02-20, 04:27 PM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 5,746
Default

I think it is from the Danbury Mint collection.
Marc

Wrong again!
__________________
I am still looking for the Army Formation cloth sleeve badges from the Sultanate of Oman.

Last edited by 54Bty; 04-02-20 at 01:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-02-20, 04:59 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,488
Default

Not from Danbury Mint as badges were anodised with blades.

Here is mine from LONDON BADGE & BUTTON Co Ltd. In packet of issue with correct NSN.

A quality badge.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DWR offr (1).jpg (68.3 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg DWR offr (2).jpg (51.3 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg DWR offr (3).jpg (57.2 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg DWR offr (5).jpg (45.1 KB, 42 views)
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-02-20, 05:13 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 3,249
Default

Thanks gents. Itís definitely got some quality about it. The colour of the back in the flesh is more reminiscent of tarnished silver plate than its come out in my photo.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-02-20, 12:24 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Default

Luke,

I have spent quite some time on this badge and I believe that it is an official issue officers example from the mid 1990's with an NSN of 8455-99-130-3704 pattern No. 30204. It was deleted from the inventory in 2009. Firmin later marked their badges just 'FIRMIN' in quite large letters although there are abbreviations of 'F&S' and the 'double diamond FIRMIN' mark etc. However, FIRMIN.LONDON seems early/mid 1990's.

If anyone has an example of this badge in unopenend packaging then I would be most interested to see it.

Regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-02-20, 08:43 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 3,249
Default

Many thanks indeed Chris. Thatís very interesting. In your research is it a known practice for modern officers badges to have sliders on occasion?

Cheers,
Luke
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-02-20, 09:55 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Many thanks indeed Chris. Thatís very interesting. In your research is it a known practice for modern officers badges to have sliders on occasion?

Cheers,
Luke
Hi Luke,

No not really and if I remember this is the only one. I think some official ones were also made by LB&B and the regiment also commissioned a batch of badges for 'the ranks' to wear instead of A/A - again with sliders. Also, there are a few different variations on design especially re: voiding on lion and also on scroll touching the lion.

A difficult badge to sort out but I'm almost sure yours is official issue officers. If I could find one in a packet I would be a lot more confident though.

Regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-02-20, 11:47 AM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,390
Default

Luke, it appears your badge has had a hole drilled through it where the chin rests on the chest.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-02-20, 05:57 PM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
Not from Danbury Mint as badges were anodised with blades.

Here is mine from LONDON BADGE & BUTTON Co Ltd. In packet of issue with correct NSN.

A quality badge.

Tim
Hi Tim,

Yes, that's a good one - missed your post earlier.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-02-20, 07:07 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 3,249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Luke, it appears your badge has had a hole drilled through it where the chin rests on the chest.
See what you mean Hoot. It didnít stick out when I held it albeit I did think the voiding was unusual.

Just found this one on eBay and looks to have the same hole? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-A...-/254195361698
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-02-20, 08:01 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,292
Default

I asked a similar question
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=72411
Regards
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-02-20, 09:38 PM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
Not from Danbury Mint as badges were anodised with blades.

Here is mine from LONDON BADGE & BUTTON Co Ltd. In packet of issue with correct NSN.

A quality badge.

Tim
Hi Tim,

Taking this further - the only packaging I have seen for modern LB&B badges is tissue paper held in place by a piece of sellotape - I believe the badges came loose in boxes of 50. I think Mike Commerford stated that these badges were then stripped of said tissue and placed into the packaging you have shown by the Army itself with sticker on the front with NSN and quantity info. Hence packaging you have is not LB&B but MoD.

This sort of packaging is quite common on modern items but I have been unable to determine if badges in this packaging are solely LB&B or perhaps unmarked Shaw Munster, TKS etc.

Regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-02-20, 10:40 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
See what you mean Hoot. It didnít stick out when I held it albeit I did think the voiding was unusual

Just found this one on eBay and looks to have the same hole? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/British-A...-/254195361698
Different makers, both with sliders and the same sort of hole through the neck. Very odd.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-02-20, 10:47 PM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Different makers, both with sliders and the same sort of hole through the neck. Very odd.
Different badges - look at the contact points of the scroll. Four points for Gaunt and two for Firmin.

Regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:40 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.