Sealed Pattern to Final Product

[Jelly Terror]

We see many variations of cap badges to a given unit, with individual renderings ranging from exquisite to laughable; no two makers’ badges ever seem to be the same. Having recently read a fascinating article on military dress and men’s outdoor leisurewear in the Great War period, a few interesting issues raised therein caused me to wonder about the process of badge making, from sealed pattern to final product, and the interface between those two ends of that spectrum.

How open to interpretation were sealed patterns (if that’s how it worked) in terms of manufacturers’ renderings of them; how much of a free hand were makers given; how rigid were the rules (if any) covering ‘artistic interpretation’ and the transposing of the sealed pattern to their own finished product?

By way of example, here are the head sections from four Queen’s Royal West Surrey badges, Pattern 4681/1898. As can be seen, the individual renderings differ enormously:

QRWS 1.jpgQRWS 2.jpgQRWS 3.jpgQRWS 4.jpg

Yes, they are all recognisably lambs (at a decent distance ), and perhaps it is only when scrutinised and examined in close detail that disparities become apparent. Do we have any insight as to the processes involved when a manufacturer received a government contract to produce a badge? Were they free to produce it as they saw fit, and if not, how liberal or strict were the guidelines, how broad or narrow were the parameters they were and were not allowed to operate within?

Would manufacturers in the Great War period, say, have employed (for want of a better word or greater understanding) die makers/designers who would fashion the company’s particular interpretation of a sealed pattern?

Hoping to gain a greater understanding of this with members’ help.

Regards,

JT

[Home Guard]

Very interesting! I'll take the first one please.

Terry

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

Very interesting! I'll take the first one please.

Terry

And a very good choice it is too, being a Vic/Edw, Firmin-made ruminant.

JT

[Waterloo1815]

JT,
Great question. As a collector of mainly Buffs badges I'm always on the lookout for any that show a variation as to what I've already got (avoiding modern copies etc of course). I read somewhere on the forum that there were about 30 different manufacturers of Buffs badges. It maybe the case that most of these will be identical, or with only very small differences, but I've a growing collection where the differences are obvious. I also know; as I've also read on the forum somewhere, that some people think that my type of collecting is pointless (collecting the same badge, but with die variations), but each to his own!
Regards,
Leo

[Luke H]

It’s a good question which becomes more muddied over time with numerous firms contracted or sub-contracted to produce badges, so this could be a piece of string question.

I’d imagine the very first die was cut using the approved artists drawing by a die engraver. I’m sure dimensions and obviously materials would be stipulated. From there I’d expect a sample was made for approval.

Thereafter at a guess companies may be sent a facsimile of some description of the SP badge or a drawing along with the relevant specs and go at it again.

How much inspection of the final product occurred in wartime I think is highly debatable, and doubtless WW1 accounts for a great many of the makers variants seen.

I’d also surmise regiments had much less leeway to refuse or reject regalia in wartime and it was likely a case of wear what your given since the WO will have had rather more to worry about than entertaining regiments insignia grumbles. This could even be the explanation for several unofficial badges which appeared mid-war.

[Alan O]

Luke makes some very good points here and you must also include those badges made to be sold commercially in NAAFI canteens and the like. Bought and worn so period pieces. This was so common to replace plastic economy badges in WW2 that there was even a Parliamentary Question about it undermining the war effort by using up metal resources!

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Waterloo1815

JT,
Great question. As a collector of mainly Buffs badges I'm always on the lookout for any that show a variation as to what I've already got (avoiding modern copies etc of course). I read somewhere on the forum that there were about 30 different manufacturers of Buffs badges. It maybe the case that most of these will be identical, or with only very small differences, but I've a growing collection where the differences are obvious. I also know; as I've also read on the forum somewhere, that some people think that my type of collecting is pointless (collecting the same badge, but with die variations), but each to his own!
Regards,
Leo

There are lots of good reasons for collecting all the variants. I do the same with Queen's ORs' badges (Patterns 4681/1898 and 4681A/1916), as (I believe) does Nozzer, and RSM, with Norfolks, and Julian with KLR. Others too, of course.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Self-deleted - duplicate post.

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

There are lots of good reasons for collecting all the variants. I do the same with Queen's ORs' badges (Patterns 4681/1898 and 4681A/1916), as (I believe) does Nozzer, and RSM, with Norfolks, and Julian with KLR. Others too, of course.

JT

Indeed I do. Norfolk, Hertfordshire and Machine Gun Corps.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Luke H

It’s a good question which becomes more muddied over time with numerous firms contracted or sub-contracted to produce badges, so this could be a piece of string question.

I’d imagine the very first die was cut using the approved artists drawing by a die engraver. I’m sure dimensions and obviously materials would be stipulated. From there I’d expect a sample was made for approval.

Thereafter at a guess companies may be sent a facsimile of some description of the SP badge or a drawing along with the relevant specs and go at it again.

How much inspection of the final product occurred in wartime I think is highly debatable, and doubtless WW1 accounts for a great many of the makers variants seen.

I’d also surmise regiments had much less leeway to refuse or reject regalia in wartime and it was likely a case of wear what your given since the WO will have had rather more to worry about than entertaining regiments insignia grumbles. This could even be the explanation for several unofficial badges which appeared mid-war.

Originally Posted by Alan O

Luke makes some very good points here and you must also include those badges made to be sold commercially in NAAFI canteens and the like. Bought and worn so period pieces. This was so common to replace plastic economy badges in WW2 that there was even a Parliamentary Question about it undermining the war effort by using up metal resources!

Thanks blokes.

Looking at the various versions of some of the badges out there, I wonder if the more illustrious manufacturers (your Gaunts and your Jennenses etc.) could afford more accomplished artisans to undertake this work. Their badges seem, comparatively, consistently to be of higher quality craftsmanship.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Indeed I do. Norfolk, Hertfordshire and Machine Gun Corps.

Very nice too.

[Luke H]

I’m sure your B&P’s, Jennens, Gaunts and Firmin’s of this world actively sought out and employed the best engravers, craftsmen and also had the state of the art or very high quality machinery needed to achieve their superior quality. Simply put it was their bread and butter.

Come 1914/15 I expect the craftsmen in the various metalworks firms that ventured into cap badge production showed their most skilled man at hand engraving a picture and asked if he could engrave that on a die. The foreman was probably asked if their workshop presses could handle the sheet metal required and like all small firms they had a go. Whilst no doubt these were highly skilled metalworkers in their own right they were not in the same league as the above.

[Jelly Terror]

This seems completely logical in answering the question as to quality of execution.

The reputations of these artisans at the upper end would surely have preceded them wherever they went within the trade. Wouldn't it be wonderful to know who some of these craftsmen were?

Regards to all,

JT

[KLR]

A few years ago I visited the Jewellery District in Birmingham and had a good understanding of materials and makers - not actually badges but the process was fascinating

[Luke H]

For the big boys like Gaunt and Firmin it may well be possible JT to find out who their chief engravers were. I wonder if it’s listed for Gaunt in their archives?

I’ve found an article online that states Edward Carter Preston was one of their chief designers from the 1920s onwards. Preston deigned the Dead Man’s Penny.