What to do??

[Old Hertfordian]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone that has helped me in the few posts that I have done so far. I will try and return the favours when I can, but until then I would like to get others opinions on what I should do with the helmet plates that I picked up today.

I have no problem with their being original, but they would appear to have been repainted rather heavily in the not so distant past. This is my problem. Should I try and get them stripped down and re blackened (which would probably be no different in the long run) or leave as is? I would be interested to hear what others would do or perhaps what they have done in the past in similar circumstances.

Ellis

P.S.

Sorry for the poor photography, but I am trying to get used to taking pictures on this camera

[seanhath]

I’d strip the paint, see what you’ve got and repaint them properly.
So you don’t damage them I’d use Mr Muscle:

Get a black bag & an old baking tray. Put the badges on the tray & spray liberally with Mr Muscle. Put them in the black bag & tie the bag securely. Leave them for at least 8 hours, then use an old toothbrush to wash the paint away under warm water.

Regards,
Sean

[manchesters]

Did the 1st and 3rd VB Essex have blackened badges?

Shouldnt they be WM?

Is the paint hiding the fact that they may be spurious?

The paint needs to go whatever the outcome.

regards

[Old Hertfordian]

Originally Posted by seanhath

I’d strip the paint, see what you’ve got and repaint them properly.
So you don’t damage them I’d use Mr Muscle:

Get a black bag & an old baking tray. Put the badges on the tray & spray liberally with Mr Muscle. Put them in the black bag & tie the bag securely. Leave them for at least 8 hours, then use an old toothbrush to wash the paint away under warm water.

Regards,
Sean

Thanks Sean, Not something that I had thought of trying.

Originally Posted by manchesters

Did the 1st and 3rd VB Essex have blackened badges?

Shouldnt they be WM?

Is the paint hiding the fact that they may be spurious?

The paint needs to go whatever the outcome.

regards

1st and 3rd Essex wore blackened plates, not all VB's wore WM ones.

I have not come across these plates being faked although the 2nd VB Glengarry has. That being said these are original, although my photography leaves a lot to be desired.

All being considered, the paint does need to go, but I am unsure how to finish them.

[Luke H]

If it had been re-blacked a considerable time ago my opinion would to be leave it. However as you say it does appear to have been ‘painted’ very recently with a thickly applied gloss paint which has visibly affected the sharpness and definition, especially the lettering.

Personally I’d either remove it or have a go a dulling the finish down - if the correct finish should indeed be black.

Nail polish remover (acetone) on a cotton wool bud and gently rub, that will remove modern acrylic and gloss paint. When I’ve used this method it’s left what remained of the original blacking (provided one’s not too vigorous). Good luck.

[grenadierguardsman]

Is it me or is the lettering on the left one a bit suspect ?
Andy

[Old Hertfordian]

Originally Posted by Luke H

If it had been re-blacked a considerable time ago my opinion would to be leave it. However as you say it does appear to have been ‘painted’ very recently with a thickly applied gloss paint which has visibly affected the sharpness and definition, especially the lettering.

Personally I’d either remove it or have a go a dulling the finish down - if the correct finish should indeed be black.

Nail polish remover (acetone) on a cotton wool bud and gently rub, that will remove modern acrylic and gloss paint. When I’ve used this method it’s left what remained of the original blacking (provided one’s not too vigorous). Good luck.

Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Is it me or is the lettering on the left one a bit suspect ?
Andy

Ha, yes, going on the pictures I can see why you would think that. However, it is a combination of poor photography and a very generous coat of pain..... I will take a better picture tomorrow if I can.

[Old Hertfordian]

Still not brilliant, but a bit clearer.

[Old Hertfordian]

So, anyway.....

I decided to leave as is for the forseeable future.

One thing that I have noted under more thorough examination, is that the centre of the 3 VB is WM, but the backing is brass or GM. Now is this normal, or could this be spurious as Manchesters has suggested?

I look forward to any opinions

[seanhath]

Originally Posted by Old Hertfordian

So, anyway.....

I decided to leave as is for the forseeable future.

One thing that I have noted under more thorough examination, is that the centre of the 3 VB is WM, but the backing is brass or GM. Now is this normal, or could this be spurious as Manchesters has suggested?

I look forward to any opinions

I would remove the paint and find out what you’ve got for sure.
Paint can always be re-applied, and an ape would do a better job than whosoever painted them last time - so it’s win/win.
Cheers,
Sean

[grenadierguardsman]

I don't like the quality off them, I'm sorry to say.
Andy

[Luke H]

I agree with Sean. I don’t think either should be blackened. Regardless it’s clearly not the original finish. But end of the day, it’s your badge so your decision

[Keith Blakeman]

These are my two for comparison.

I must admit I did have concerns about the 3rd, it was won very cheaply on ebay without competition which always worries me a bit with the amount of dealers out there are out there. Then the abbreviation of VOL without the small R which appears on all the other VB's plates. However, there was a recent huge collection of Essex badges at Lockdales from a long time Essex collector in which there was a KC plate with the missing R as well.

It appears Essex headress badges, glengarry, plates and cap badges appear in blackened and white metal.

[Nozzer]

You will find examples of blackend 1vb and 3vb plates in this excellent album

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=1547

You will also find examples here

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=3329

It would seem, as Keith has noticed that the 1vb an 3vb plates exist in both WM and BB. However, the one thing I do notice, is that there is no 2vb plates. Now I am not an Essex collector, but does such a thing exist?

Now, IMO the finish is awful and it might be worth stripping them back. However, I notice that no one has advised as to how to re blacken them and would be very intersted as to how this should be done?

[Old Hertfordian]

So, I decided to try and do something with these two. The finish was really getting to me, so I thought what the heck, I paid nothing for them and I wanted to know what was going on.

The 1vb cleaned down very quickly. After a couple of efforts using nail polish remover and the like with no result, I resorted to paint stripper as the paint was so thick.The reverse retained the original finish at the end, but the front was down to the original brass.

The 3vb on the other hand was a real pain in the reverse! The paint was so thick, that it took several efforts to clean down. The end result, although apparent very early on was quite shocking. The back plate was brass, but the centre was white metal. It looked like a bit of a bodge job to be honest, but was obviously a very old repair. On discussing this with a fellow collector, he suggested that it is quite possible that this is a contempary piece and that the VB's would often recycle badges etc. to save money.

The one thing that I should have done, is to take pictures at various stages of the project and I must apologize for my lack of forethought. I think that they are much better now, but I am really having a tough time getting good clear pictures. I have a couple of days off this weekend, so I will try and work out how this camera works. In the meantime here is a couple of pictures, the best I can do at present, of the end result which I think is much more pleasing.

Many thanks for your help, advice and encouragement,

Ellis