5th King's Liverpool in bi-metal

[Mike]

Bought a small accumulation of stuff from a non-collector member of the public. Included 5x T/5/KING'S shoulder titles; a broken all brass (I assume also 5th Btn badge) and a blackened bi-metal Liverpool badge.

I have assumed 5th btn was blackened brass - but did they also blacken up normal bi-metal badges for the 5th?

[Phil2M]

May have been operationally blackened for night time offensives?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

May have been operationally blackened for night time offensives?

Could be.

Why create a special all brass badge just to paint it black anyway? Are the all brass versions not WW1 economy production types painted black for the 5th and used in the latter part of the war? clutching at straws here

[KLR]

I have seen black painted GM & WM 1896 Patt cap badges before. I had also thought that it was operational. (2nd WW Liverpool HG wore King's badge painted black).

Curiously, the 5th Bn badges were made in one die which makes economic/production sense (see also 7th Bn in WM) but also made in two dies (horse and scroll) ! It does not appear to be a chronological production. Leaving the area between unpierced the hind legs is clearly chronological - and also a much smaller tail. Loops are clearly earlier than sliders.




I've just remembered that badges were blackened in the Egypt and Palestine theatres so to deter the sun's glint on raw metal.

[Mike]

many thanks for the information and ideas chaps.

for posterity here's the relic 5th that came with the one above, clear evidence of blackening and two part construction. I wish it had been in good nick.

[The Red Barron]

Another option is someone has just painted/sprayed it black as a gap filler.

[KLR]

This one is what I've labelled Die 12 (of the 1896 Patt).
I have half a dozen and they are all (regular and 5th Bn) in two pieces and have sliders and with unpierced legs.

If you look at the back of a two piece badge you will see two 'tabs' that are brazed the horse and the scroll - for the King's there are two shaped U shaped (earlier) and V shaped (later) - all mine are. All in all I would say 1915/6.
(The reason I collect every different / variation one I can get is that the more examples there are the more statistical analysis of eg dates but very few are maker marked.)




Baron - there were no KLR cap badges in all 1916 GM ("economy") so there wouldn't be any floating badges around to paint or spray. If you see an all GM 5th badge without any blackening is one that has been "cleaned" (quite often to sell as an all 1916 GM !!!!!!!)

[The Red Barron]

Is this is the one you are referring to.

[KLR]

Not sure if it is 1896 Die 11 or 12 ? - definitely 5th Bn

You can clearly see the later style tabs.


(It looks as though it's been given a new slider?)