British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24-01-16, 03:31 PM
david1812 david1812 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Durban - South Africa
Posts: 8
Default Confirmation - brevet ID and period

THIS Half-brevet came to me with the medals of a South African WWII artilleryman - which means nothing as in my experience as a very long time medal collector, it was quite common for men to exchange/collect insignia, etc at the time - most of which ended up with other badges, buttons and sundries in an old cigar or chocolate box. Anyway, from what I know, this appears to be R.A.F. and obviously an air gunner. BUT whereas most such brevets are embroidered silk or cotton, this badge is bullion wire - as can be seen. It is in excellent condition - virtually pristine. Here is both the Obverse and Reverse in the illustrations. So what I would like to know from an EXPERT is the exact details of the brevet, please - including when, where and how it was used. Thank you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Air Gunner Bevet.jpg (70.7 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Air Gunner Brevet - Reverse.jpg (89.7 KB, 20 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24-01-16, 04:24 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Welcome to the Forum David.
Your post is active and Forum members can comment.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24-01-16, 08:56 PM
David Tremain's Avatar
David Tremain David Tremain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,903
Default

It looks like it's probably Mess Dress, and WW2.

David
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24-01-16, 09:59 PM
david1812 david1812 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Durban - South Africa
Posts: 8
Default

Thank you for that opinion. And obviously RAF.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24-01-16, 10:51 PM
arrestingu arrestingu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 2,117
Default

ww2
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28-01-16, 11:33 AM
seaeagle25 seaeagle25 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 125
Default Confirmation - brevet ID and period

Hi there guys

At around 8cms (if I am reading the tape measure correctly), wouldn't this be too big for mess dress?

Kind regards

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-01-16, 01:05 AM
SAS1 SAS1 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,383
Default

It is definitely NOT WW2 Mess Dress. Why? Because mess dress was abolished in early 1940 as the AG wing was brought in and not reintroduced until 1946.

There was no call for bullion wings during the war as the full dress was also discontinued, and the size would preclude mess dress of any date.

Bullion badges of regulation size and in gold on an raf blue/grey backing were introduced in 1947 for the new pattern of uniform introduced that year. These were abolished in 1949 and the RAF reverted to standard pattern aircrew wings.

This may have been made for someone who later transferred to the army and who wore it on the navy blue No.1 dress. I've seen a number like this over the years, pilots wings and O wings often for the RFC navy full dress. However, as mentioned, the AG was introduced in December 1939 and with no reason to wear bullion during WW2 it's almost certainly post war.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-01-16, 04:51 AM
david1812 david1812 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Durban - South Africa
Posts: 8
Default Air Gunner badge.

Thank you all for your input so far. From what I have seen - those who have replied don't seem to know FOR CERTAIN what this brevet is, and when it was produced or used. This suggests that the brevet is possibly scarce / rare ????
I wonder,,,,,,,,,,,, ????
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-01-16, 05:27 AM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi Chaps

I'm certainly not an expert on RAF brevets but several years ago I had the opportunity to view an extensive collection put together by a knowledgeable collector.

The collection included at least one half brevet of the type in question, possibly more than one although I can't remember which designation they were.

The story behind them which I was given was much the same as "SAS1" has outlined above. I can't remember the exact dates but, basically, they were worn for a brief period just post WW2, possibly on a trial or experimental basis. Either way they were short-lived and the "normal" wings were reintroduced. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this information but it's what I was told anyway.

It was around the same time that NCO aircrew were given a new range of badges and these were also withdrawn in favour of the previous brevets. These short-lived NCO badges, whilst scarce, are well documented.

David
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
air gunner, raf, wire brevet, wwii?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.