British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Other Army Departments and Corps Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-11-22, 05:44 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,526
Default Odd Small Arms School Cap badge

Hi folks

A typical heavy cast cap badge from India or Pakistan, as usual might be old or might have been made yesterday.
However what's unusual is that it is not a typical SASC pattern/copy
Any ideas?
Regards
Sean
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_20221102-193910_eBay.jpg (93.8 KB, 170 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-11-22, 07:28 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,526
Default

Answering my own question....is it purporting to be prior to amalgamation with the Machine Gun School?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-11-22, 07:54 PM
Sonofacqms's Avatar
Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,783
Question Odd Small Arms School Cap badge

I'm not sure what type of rifles are represented on this badge, they certainly do not look much like SMLE's or any other Lee Enfield that was in service 1902-1953.

Perhaps other firearms enthusiasts will have an idea of what they are?

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-11-22, 08:20 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

They have the appearance of flintlock muskets.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-11-22, 08:47 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper533 View Post
Answering my own question....is it purporting to be prior to amalgamation with the Machine Gun School?
Could it be an "updated" version of a "School of Musketry" prize badge

Possibly from 1919-1926 ? (see photo 2)

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SoM.jpg (43.4 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Small Arms.jpg (21.2 KB, 2 views)
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-11-22, 09:49 AM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,526
Default

Hi Mike
I was looking at this image last night thinking it had similarities,
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-11-22, 02:28 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

A typical sand cast badge. I think it’s probably for the Small Arms School at Saugor, in India. There were similar Small Arms Schools across the Empire, principally in the Dominions (India had two or three at different times, including Pachmarhi and another offshoot was at Ahmendnagar). They were run on lines and syllabi laid down by the parent school at Hythe, with a mixture (in India) of British and indigenous instructors. After independence the school moved to Mhow.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 23-11-22 at 02:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-11-22, 02:41 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,526
Default

That's great Toby, many thanks.
Regards
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-11-22, 03:12 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper533 View Post
That's great Toby, many thanks.
Regards
Sean
I’m glad to help and fairly sure of it. They are extraordinarily rare because they weren’t worn by the British officers, but by the Indian NCOs on the permanent staff, usually on the front of their pagris. Very few are likely to have survived.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-03-23, 07:08 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,526
Default

As coincidence would have it, I spotted this card on ebay so bought just because it had the badge on the front,
What I didn't expect is that the seller had researched the sender of the card and sent their findings.
Lt John W Lugard (Kings Own)
Seconded Small Arms School 1927
Pachmarhi Wing Central Provinces.

So you were spot on Toby

Cheers
Sean
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20230329_215620.jpg (23.9 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg 20230329_215645.jpg (24.0 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 20230329_215708.jpg (52.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 20230329_215758.jpg (69.5 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by sapper533; 29-03-23 at 07:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29-03-23, 07:17 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 3,079
Default

Great stuff, Sean. Thanks for sharing.
Regards, John
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29-03-23, 07:36 PM
CAM's Avatar
CAM CAM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posts: 1,217
Default

Great find.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14-04-23, 06:01 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper533 View Post
As coincidence would have it, I spotted this card on ebay so bought just because it had the badge on the front,
What I didn't expect is that the seller had researched the sender of the card and sent their findings.
Lt John W Lugard (Kings Own)
Seconded Small Arms School 1927
Pachmarhi Wing Central Provinces.

So you were spot on Toby

Cheers
Sean
Thank you for posting it Sean - very interesting to me. Also the green and yellow ribbon colours of the SofM. The colours of the Netheravon Machine Gun School in the U.K. were red, green and blue (from the old MGC) and when the Small Arms School Corps was formed by merging the two schools in 1926 the two sets of colours were all combined and eventually appeared in the new corps ribbon and later in a stable belt and necktie. From a cap badge perspective it’s especially significant that if you superimpose a Vickers MG in profile over the crest (also your badge) on your card it creates the cap badge adopted by the SASC, three years later, in 1929.

P.S. There was another such school at Changla Gali during WW1. The original school of musketry during the HEIC era was at Dum-Dum, and where Indian and European NCOs were sent to learn the new, greased Enfield cartridge loading drill that in part led to the Indian Mutiny of 1857 (aka the ‘First War of Indian Independence’).

NB. Notice the similarities with the Canadian School of Musketry badge and the various inspirations for a Vickers gun in profile.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 94BF93C2-7468-4251-81E9-C33F0B682518.jpg (94.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpeg E9CBA6D8-D950-44C9-A423-552CB9E5327E.jpeg (29.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 5BE8DDB8-3D6D-4E98-A736-FFE19F3A9CF9.jpg (43.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 6A73306C-2D3F-4F37-AD42-C9DEE67E76A6.jpg (75.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpeg 58158E0A-455E-4BAD-B70C-0C2F578EA444.jpeg (61.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 6713130C-4875-4871-B1F8-4966F151ADBF.jpg (68.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpeg D62B60A4-F866-48B0-A3E9-0B57FEEF4CAC.jpeg (63.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpeg A8913405-ED47-43C2-9B95-45E95349C680.jpeg (63.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 5B644822-EE23-4898-B839-56E59F9BA67D.jpg (75.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg A8A6C851-B337-432A-8B76-85B17F557A42.jpg (71.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpeg 4845159B-D0FD-4C4B-AC92-BF5DE5DB37A9.jpeg (57.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 9084880C-E1A3-42D4-B76C-BAEBD0EEB4D7.jpg (61.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpeg 7BEDB2FC-64C0-4397-B1D9-FF642757FDF2.jpeg (84.9 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 17-04-23 at 05:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.