When does a cap badge become a Pagri badge?

[hindoostan]

This E Lancs badge was in a lot I bought today. The slider is fitted lower down giving it the appearance of being a long slider. Is this deliberate or just a manufacturers variant?

[Alan O]

The lower slider was the original position.

The higher slider was a later change.

Whilst cap badges were sometimes worn on pagris under regimental arrangements, there was no official 'pagri' cap badge. The use of the HPC design on long sliders was specifically for the FSH but no evidence of their wear exists.

[Alan O]

The 1916 version also had the low slider.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=126693

The change was inter war.

[hindoostan]

Thanks for the info Alan,very interesting. I often see cap badges with a supposedly long slider described as a Pagri Badge and also HPC's with long thin sliders again described as Pagri Badges. Very confusing!

[Alan O]

The sequence of cap badge attachments for most was:

pre 1903 Lugs for the FSC (worn overseas until 1914)
1903-05 Long slider for the Brodrick
1906 Shorter slider for the peaked cap.

Often the sealed pattern for the badge describes the fitting as the same for several types of hats including FSH's pagri.

There were regimental differences of course and changes such as the move of the East Lancashire slider in the 20's, the hairpin slider for the Royal Irish Rifles, and the use of 'spade' lugs instead of a slider by the KOYLI in the 30;s.

[bewley]

A cap badge becomes a pagri badge when it chooses to self identify as such!

[Parabellum]

Originally Posted by Alan O

The lower slider was the original position.

The higher slider was a later change.

Whilst cap badges were sometimes worn on pagris under regimental arrangements, there was no official 'pagri' cap badge. The use of the HPC design on long sliders was specifically for the FSH but no evidence of their wear exists.

Hi Alan,

I managed to find this interesting photograph which appears to show a HPC being worn in the Pagri folds on the white helmet.

Now we'll never know if it has a long slider, but I think it's position on the helmet makes it a possibility, would you agree ?

Neil

[Parabellum]

The King's Own Royal Lancaster regiment.

[Alan O]

I would agree. That's a rare image indeed.
Thanks
Alan

[Alex Rice]

Originally Posted by bewley

A cap badge becomes a pagri badge when it chooses to self identify as such!

There's a new field of collecting..."woke" cap badges...

[grey_green_acorn]

I have this rather battered version which might have been worn in a pagri?

Tim

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Parabellum

Hi Alan,

I managed to find this interesting photograph which appears to show a HPC being worn in the Pagri folds on the white helmet.

Now we'll never know if it has a long slider, but I think it's position on the helmet makes it a possibility, would you agree ?

Neil

The Royal Army Clothing Department (RACD) list of changes (WO359 vol. 12, 120-121) records that on Jan 5, 1903, at a meeting in the pattern room of the RACD, the decision was taken that the same badge was to be worn on both the Foreign Service Helmet (FSH), and the Terai (meaning the slouch hat). The records of this meeting show that for cavalry the FSC badge was to be used, infantry regiments were to use their helmet plate centres, and both types of badge were to be fitted with a slider.

Where a regiment did not wear the home service helmet, such as Fusilier regiments etc, the Glengarry, or the existing full dress badge was to be worn.

Subsequently the forage cap badges were sealed for both forage cap and FSC and the use of the HPC's and Fusilier Glengarry badges in the FSH was rescinded.