Slip on shoulder titles query!

[cbuehler]

A small batch I acquired not long ago. I see these frequently for sale, but for the life of me, I have never found any photo reference with them in wear. Were these ever really worn, and if so, in what order of dress?
I am aware that the white lettered ones are ww1 and the rest ww2 or just prior to that. They cant have been very popular with the soldiers. PS, I am perplexed by the NF, which I believe is Northumberland Fusiliers, but did the not become RNF around the mid 30s?
Thanks all,

CB

[badjez]

The badges with white lettering are usually from the 1916-19 era.
The black embroidery on khaki was introduced for wear on battle dress from 1939/40, and not phased out until the 1950's

There have been LOTS of fakes made for both types, but the 2nd war ones appear to be appearing in greater numbers recently. The manufacture of the fakes is usually inferior.

Stephen.

[cbuehler]

Thanks Stephen,
But why can I not find any photos or reference of these in wear, neither ww1 nor ww2? (Not that I have the greatest of resources however.)
And if the ww2 ones date from 39/40, why NF on the Northumberland Fus. title, if it is indeed them. I remain perplexed....
Not to mention my surprise that printed insignia (Suffolk) was in use during ww1/
CB

[sketchley kid]

Ernie Johnston early 40's

[oc14]

By mid war the black on khaki Infantry regimental titles were worn by members of the Army Cadet Force with a sew on black on khaki "Cadet Force" title sewn on at the shoulder
PL

[Tiger Pete]

Hi CB,

Thanks for posting the picture, I'd not seen the Royal Sussex example before.

Kind Regards,

Pete

[cbuehler]

Thanks folks,
Please keep the info coming. Has anyone ever seen photo reference with the ww1 versions in actual wear?

CB

[Rob Miller]

Here's a WW1 training reserve slip on in use.

Rob

[manchesters]

WW1 types are regularly seen being worn in photos. Very common to see.

regards

[Postwarden]

An interesting observation.

The need to conserve metal saw the introduction in April 1916 of ‘Titles, Embroidered, Service Dress, Cloth, Drab, Melton, Thick’ to replace metal ones, their drab or khaki cloth backing machine-embroidered with the name of the regiment or corps as it appeared on the metal title. The titles were manufactured in three sizes; where the metal title had 11-17 letters or included a grenade the cloth was 2½ inches deep, those with 6-10 letters or which included a bugle were 2 inches deep, those for straight titles 1¼ inches deep. In February 1917 the British Expeditionary Force in France ordered them removed from the shoulder strap and sewn at the top of the arm. at the end of April 1919 the Royal Clothing Factory was instructed that ‘Titles, Shoulder, Embroidered…sealed as a war measure will no longer be provided….They will be retained for a little longer and when stocks are used up metal titles will be reverted to’. On 7th October 1919 units were ordered to revert to brass shoulder titles and all cloth titles were declared obsolete , a superfluous instruction for the many units which had never worn them anyway; contemporary photographs provide little evidence of the widespread use of cloth slip-on titles with brass titles worn more often than the cloth versions.

Rank badges and cloth shoulder titles, modelled on those of the First World War were introduced for battle dress with the grenades and bugle horns worn by some regiments omitted. This explains the NF title as the Royal title was added below the grenade on the metal version. Their use on battle dress and later its overseas equivalent was widespread.

They were replaced in 1943 by coloured printed arm titles although they remained official items for overseas use until the early 1950s.

The full story of both items appears in my book Badges on Battle Dress which also illustrates all the World War Two slip-on titles.

Jon

[cbuehler]

Well, I certainly got my answer here! Thanks so much for that Jon.
I suspected that the ww1 types did not see wide spread use, and am not surprised that some units never wore them at all. Very interesting that the BEF was ordered to have them sewn to the upper arm. Are there any photos extent showing this in practice?
I am surprised that they were used so extensively during the early part of ww2 and even post war.

CB

[badjez]

CB,

If you check out The Great War Forum you will find a wealth of information on WW1 insignia.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/


Stephen.

[cbuehler]

Thanks for that Stephen,
I have been collecting British Militaria for over 40 years now, but these slip on shoulder titles have been a bit of a puzzle to me as I have seen so little reference to them.
Will most certainly be checking the link you provided on a regular basis.
Cheers,
C

[Postwarden]

An example of the slip-on title sewn to the upper arm, in this case to make way for a Tank Corps coloured slip-on on the epaulette.

Jon

[Postwarden]

Further examples of the titles as worn in the two World Wars.

Jon