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  #16  
Old 15-09-21, 09:32 AM
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Thanks Luke for capturing in a few words the essence of my comparison with the blackened DLI badges. Sorry to have put you off the scent Leigh.

Cheers Dean
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  #17  
Old 15-09-21, 10:01 AM
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No prob - it would help if I could read, I should be able to tell the difference between "DLI" and "5 East Yorks".
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  #18  
Old 15-09-21, 10:06 AM
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Hello Luke, Do you know of a reference photo which shows the 2VB East Lancs (Cyclists Company) with a lugged glengarry badge? I have always mistakenly believed that the Company wore only a cyclist pouch badge.
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  #19  
Old 15-09-21, 11:27 AM
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Only reference I have on the subject is "East York Volunteer Infantry 1859-1908" by R. Williamson and G.A. Collinson.

It shows an illustration of the 2VB East Yorks glengarry badge but no mention of a different badge for the Battalion's Cyclists element.

It illustrates an all white metal 2VB East Yorks cap badge, the rose, wreath, star over regimental name scroll but with an additional 2VB scroll which I hadn't seen elsewhere.

It doesn't mention or illustrate the 1VB version of same which I've seen in dealer's lists, or the white metal version without an additional VB scroll, which I've seen with remnants of black paint.

Apologies to those who know all this already:

On 1/7/1881 the two battalions of the East Yorkshire Rifle Volunteer Corps were designated as Volunteer Battalions of the East Yorkshire Regiment.
On 1/5/1883 they were formally retitled as the 1st Volunteer Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and the 2nd Volunteer Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment.
“It is not clear at what paint the badges of the Rifle Volunteers were exchanged for East Yorkshire Regiment insignia (still in silver or white metal for volunteers).
The right to wear the badge of the East Yorkshire Regiment was granted in a War Office letter dated 25th February 1885, but photographs of officers in 1884 show the badge being worn on the peaked forage cap as part of undress uniform.”
The badge worn by 2VB on the Glengarry Cap introduced for Rank and File in 1874, worn until 1895, was an 8 pointed star bearing the Rose of York encircled by a laurel wreath all within a circlet bearing “2ND VOLr. BATN. EAST YORKSHIRE” and surmounted by the Victorian Crown.

Around 1896-98 2VB wore the Field Service Cap with two small white metal GS buttons on the front and a cap badge in white metal – the rose and wreath above a scroll “2ND VOLr BATTn” on a star and with scroll “EAST YORKSHIRE”” below (I’m not quite sure of the exact wording on the “2ND VOLr BATTn" scroll).
In 1893 the War Office sanctioned the formation of a Cyclist Section in each volunteer Battalion, a section was formed in the 1st VB and in “A" Coy of 2VB.
By 1901 Volunteer Regulations sanctioned the formation of Cyclist Companies in each Battalion, 1VB quickly formed “H" Coy (a photograph of them taken in 1902 shows them wearing white metal collar badges in the blue FSC) but 2VB appear to have continued to operate a Cyclist Section.
On 1/4/1908 1 VB East Yorkshire Regiment became 4th Bn (TF) East Yorkshire Regiment, 2VB East Yorks amalgamated with 2VB Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) to form the 5th Bn Yorkshire Regiment. (TF).
The 5th (Cyclist) Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment was an entirely new Battalion, formed as one of the ten original units which became the Cyclist Battalions of the TF in 1908.
It’s nucleus was a group of an officer and around 90 NCOs and men from “H" Coy (Cyclists) of 1VB East Yorks.
The former Howden Coy of 2VB East Yorks, disbanded under re-organisation, provided 60% of its former strength plus company officers.
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  #20  
Old 15-09-21, 11:36 AM
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The book shows photos of 2VB's "A" Coy Cyclist Section in 1893, Glengarry badges worn but no indication that they're other than the "normal" 2VB ones.

Edit: the officer is wearing an "Austrian Cap" with a silver / white metal badge,metal, the book mentions that there exists a photograph of him wearing a black leather crossbelt with silver fittings in reference to the units Rifles origins.
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Last edited by leigh kitchen; Yesterday at 04:58 AM.
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  #21  
Old Yesterday, 12:14 AM
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Thanks Leigh, very insightful.

The illustrated glengarry is akin to the 2nd V.B. East Lancashire comparison I made, as you can see the central Sphinx device replaced with a spoked wheel.

So one wonders if there’s a similar badge (pouch?) for the 2nd V.B. East Yorkshire Regiment? An interesting thought.

… hopefully I’m not giving the repro merchants any ideas!!!

Edit: I’ve just followed the link in the OP where in post #5 Deejayuu shows lovely collar badge that was apparently also worn also on the FSC.

Link to badge worn in the FSC by H (Cyclist) Coy:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=19719

Last edited by Luke H; Yesterday at 03:33 AM.
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  #22  
Old Yesterday, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volunteer Soldier View Post
Hello Luke, Do you know of a reference photo which shows the 2VB East Lancs (Cyclists Company) with a lugged glengarry badge? I have always mistakenly believed that the Company wore only a cyclist pouch badge.
Sorry missed this. The one I pictured above in post #21 is actually for sale on David Smith’s website British Army Badges.

Having checked the back of the badge, which I admit I didn’t before as it looked exactly like a GG, it actually has 3 screw posts so is very likely a pouch badge!

Afraid I don’t have any literature reference photos of the badge itself. But, being a single Coy of a V.B. it’s perhaps not surprising. Don’t believe it’s even mentioned in E J Martin’s 1930s MHS article on ‘The Cyclist Battalions And Their Badges 1888-1921’.

Edit: my apologies to CAM for taking this thread so far off topic.

Last edited by Luke H; Yesterday at 03:37 AM.
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  #23  
Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Thanks Leigh, very insightful.

The illustrated glengarry is akin to the 2nd V.B. East Lancashire comparison I made, as you can see the central Sphinx device replaced with a spoked wheel.

So one wonders if there’s a similar badge (pouch?) for the 2nd V.B. East Yorkshire Regiment? An interesting thought.

… hopefully I’m not giving the repro merchants any ideas!!!

Edit: I’ve just followed the link in the OP where in post #5 Deejayuu shows lovely collar badge that was apparently also worn also on the FSC.

Link to badge worn in the FSC by H (Cyclist) Coy:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=19719
Officer's pouch belt plates, 1900, 1st VB silver French bugle horn, 2nd VB silver bugle horn, strung, surmounted by Victorian Crown.

In 1892 2nd VB sergeants were wearing “a bugle horn surmounted by the Victorian Crown in white metal on a red felt background”.

Photograph of "H" Company (Cyclists) 1st VB wearing the collar badge in FSC, 1902.
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  #24  
Old Yesterday, 10:03 PM
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This has turned into a fascinating thread which i would like add my ten peneth worth. There are several publications making reference to the 1st and 2nd VB East Yorks cyclists. In addition to those quoted previously in this thread there is also Colin Churchills wonderful book `History of the british infantry collar badge`. The East Yorks VB`s evolved from the 1st Yorkshire, East Riding, RVC which was raised 1859-1860. In Colins book there is a line diagram of (fig 493) of the RVC collar worn prior to 1881. I was fortunate to have been able to acquire a badge very similar though wording on the badge i have has an additional `1st` added to the wording. A metal detector field find so not in perfect condition, missing its lugs as well as the crown over but i beleive this to be a collar badge. Do not know the metals used on this badge and don`t really want to clean it up though there is evident a braise hole behind the rose to the centre. Colin also notes that both the 1st and 2nd VB`s had cycle sections raised 1893 and wore the distinctive collar (fig 495). I have added the example i have which is labelled `FSC H cyc coy, 2VB`.Its worth noting that in R Wilson/ G A Collinsons book `East York Volunteer infantry 1859 - 1908, they refer to 1st VB have `A` company as their cycle section whilst the 2nd VB have `H` company as their cycle section. Colin`s book confirms a photo exists of the fig 495 badge being worn on thr blue FSC by H coy, 1st VB.
Another reference source is Militia, Yeomanry and Volunteer Forces of the East Riding 1689-1908 by R W S Norfolk. Gives the lineage of the 2 VB`s but also gives a description of the uniforms. Interesting to note that reference is made to the cyclists companies (presume both bn`s) wore a slouch hat from 1903 to 1908. I have a postcard taken of `volunteers on Scarborough racecourse` which i think must be one of the post 1903 cycle sections of the East Yorks VB`s.
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  #25  
Old Yesterday, 10:34 PM
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Reference has been made to other VB badges other than specifically to the cycle section, attached a few of the examples i have.

1stVB officers (not silver), heavy strike with flat back

2nd VB officers helmet plate. Also other ranks glengarry and FSC badges

Volunteer bn (?) officers silver/ enamel badge. OR VB wm badge (?)

5th (cyclist) bn East Yorks badge which is refered to in the initial thread. Luke, i now have the ability to get up close to the back of the rose and it looks as though there is a blow hole to the rear though filled with braise flush so once painted, hard to spot. Also alongside is an officers badge that does not belong to the regulars. Dark bronze with silver rose to the centre, 5th bn???? Colin Churchill notes in his book that the officers badge was blackened but with a green enamel centre, its not clear if he is refering to the cap or the collar badges however.

Dave
Attached Files
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File Type: pdf Scan_20210916 (19).pdf (776.7 KB, 2 views)
File Type: pdf Scan_20210916 (20).pdf (735.9 KB, 1 views)
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  #26  
Old Yesterday, 11:22 PM
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Two very interesting and informative posts thanks you Dave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejayuu View Post
5th (cyclist) bn East Yorks badge which is refered to in the initial thread. Luke, i now have the ability to get up close to the back of the rose and it looks as though there is a blow hole to the rear though filled with braise flush so once painted, hard to spot.
Dave
That’s good to hear, I suspected that may be the case and now knowing it is confirms it’s construction is completely in keeping with an early badge.
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